Toying with idea of Cichlid tank -- advice, help appreciated

[Shay]

Here's another fish for thought cichlid, one of the smaller Lateacaras sps. They are for the most easy going, my first pair spawned with discus youngsters in the tank with them and the discus had no war wounds. Keep guppies (extra bachelors) in with them regularly. Overall they are a hardy fish and in group settings waiting for a pair to form there weren't/aren't any casualties

 

[librarygirl]

Aquariums up to 55 gallons can be placed almost anywhere without much worry at all. Many tanks larger than 55 gallons and no more than 125 gallons will be okay, if they are placed in a good structural location and your floor framing is free from significant defects. For example, a 125 gallon tank, on a wooden stand, placed perpendicular to the joists up against a bearing wall, will often be okay without any additional structural support. If your tank is over 125 gallons, then it is likely that you should consider adding supports under your wood framed floor. Please realize that these are generalities that may or may not apply to your particular situation.

That was taken from http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm
It's towards the bottom of the page, the rest is just explaining why way better than I ever could.

Thanks! *Edit: I have read that article before, a few times, but it's too technical for me and since I have no way of being able to view the joists, etc, then it didn't help much although the part above was somewhat reassuring. I've actually emailed the author to ask him too but I doubt he'll reply.*
So, um, plywood is strong enough, right?
The largest I'd go is a 55 so no worries there.

Still debating the 40 vs 55. The 40 is deeper and ~150 pounds less. The 55 is longer but heavier (and ultimately cheaper if bought used). Given the rather small space it's going to be in though I wonder if the 55 would look too large. Or maybe I'm just too chicken for a big tank.

Clearly I get in my own way. Maybe I should give up fish all together and get a gerbil or something.

 

[a.tetreault]

I went from a 10 gallon to a 75 and to be honest the 75 is so much easier to maintain. And when you get it, it wont be as big as it seems in the store

 

[Sake]

Plywood is plenty strong enough, I am a tile setter and I've had 2000 lbs of materials sitting on the floor of a second story apartment for about 2 months. Granted it was spread out a bit more but it had more per square inch than a fish tank. I say go big or go home! I wish I had gotten a 55 or even bigger instead of my 29, you know once you fill up your 40b you'll be wishing for a bigger tank! It's the curse of keeping fish lol.

 

[George9]

I went from a 10 gallon to a 75 and to be honest the 75 is so much easier to maintain. And when you get it, it wont be as big as it seems in the store

Yeah they are a ton smaller at home then what they look in the store!

I jumped from 10 to 60 and thought the 60 was harder to clean, and plant it and get your hands in there.

A 40 gallon is better for smaller people, like you said you were. And a 55 gallon is pretty tall with the stand and I need a chair to get to the bottom to mine and I'm 5' 11". But that shouldn't be a deal breaker lol.

A 40 is so much easier to scape IMO, but if you went with a 40, you'll eventually want a 55.

I'd go for the 55. Don't be intimidated, and whatever you do, no gerbil! Lol

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks Shay, (forgot to say so earlier), for the recommendation.

Sheesh. I just did a pwc, vacuum, etc on both tanks and by the end I had just about made up my mind on the 40 but then I read your replies. Now I'm re-thinking the 55. It would be cheaper, ironically enough, if I can get a good used setup. Maybe it won't look so bad when I get it home, although not sure on that, I have trouble visualizing things, I need to see them. You're right though, I probably would wish I had gone bigger if I get the 40. I just "upgraded" to a 29 a few months ago and wish I had gone bigger then.

Still not sure how I'd get it all upstairs though (not to mention in my car if I buy a fully assembled stand) but I guess the logistics can wait until I actually get the thing.

We'll see what happens. lol

 

[Malawi Freak]

Thanks everyone. I'm realizing that these are a broad range of fish so perhaps my questions were too general, my apologies. Upon more research I'm leaning toward a (SA?) dwarf cichlid tank due to the size constraints of the tank (either a 40 long, 40 breeder or maybe a 46 bow). Dwarfs seem to require softer water which I already have. So does this help narrow stocking some? I'm researching compatability now but I so far I'm finding it difficult to get much concrete info on which types and how many would go together in a 40-ish gal tank.

Maybe I need to re-think this Cichlid idea....

A 45 long is perfectly fine for many cichlids since its 12" deep and 4' wide. I use them for breeding and grow out

 

[librarygirl]

So are there any major differences between a 55, 40 long and 40 breeder in terms of stocking?

The 40 breeders aren't as long (36") but are deeper (18"). The 40 long and 55 have the same width (48") and depth (12") but differ in height by 5". Obviously the 55 can hold more water but does this matter in terms of stocking?

Say, for example, I wanted to stock the following:

--6 Spotted Blue Eye Rainbow (currently have)
--8+ Celestial Pearl Danio (currently have 8, thinking of increasing the shoal to 12-15)
--9 Ember Tetra (currently have)
--4 Sterbai Cory (have)
--6 Panda Cory (have)
--3 Nerite Snails (have)
--Pair of Cockatoo Apisto
--6-8 Golden Pencilfish
--1 GBR

Would the tank size matter in terms of swim space, gallons of water, surface area, territories, etc? I'm leaning toward a 40 long now but still not sure.

 

[a.tetreault]

Yeah they are a ton smaller at home then what they look in the store!

I jumped from 10 to 60 and thought the 60 was harder to clean, and plant it and get your hands in there.

A 40 gallon is better for smaller people, like you said you were. And a 55 gallon is pretty tall with the stand and I need a chair to get to the bottom to mine and I'm 5' 11". But that shouldn't be a deal breaker lol.

A 40 is so much easier to scape IMO, but if you went with a 40, you'll eventually want a 55.

I'd go for the 55. Don't be intimidated, and whatever you do, no gerbil! Lol

Lol I'm 4'10, I pretty much have to swim in my tank to reach the bottom of it haha, that being said tho, i still find it easier to clean then my ten gallon, and I can miss a week without doing water changes and not have to worry to much about it, in the ten gallon I have to do them religiously and check my parameters constantly. Everything fluctuates so easy in a small tank.

 

[George9]

So are there any major differences between a 55, 40 long and 40 breeder in terms of stocking?

The 40 breeders aren't as long (36") but are deeper (18"). The 40 long and 55 have the same width (48") and depth (12") but differ in height by 5". Obviously the 55 can hold more water but does this matter in terms of stocking?

Say, for example, I wanted to stock the following:

--6 Spotted Blue Eye Rainbow (currently have)
--8+ Celestial Pearl Danio (currently have 8, thinking of increasing the shoal to 12-15)
--9 Ember Tetra (currently have)
--4 Sterbai Cory (have)
--6 Panda Cory (have)
--3 Nerite Snails (have)
--Pair of Cockatoo Apisto
--6-8 Golden Pencilfish
--1 GBR

Would the tank size matter in terms of swim space, gallons of water, surface area, territories, etc? I'm leaning toward a 40 long now but still not sure.

I would think that a longer tank will have more area for the apistos to make their territory. It's also better for the tetras, rainbows, and danios. But the shorter wider tanks are better for cories because of the footprint. IMO, you'll be fine with either size.

But I would not increase the school of danios to 12 or 15. IMO, it seems a bit much to me. Well see what others say though

Lol I'm 4'10, I pretty much have to swim in my tank to reach the bottom of it haha, that being said tho, i still find it easier to clean then my ten gallon, and I can miss a week without doing water changes and not have to worry to much about it, in the ten gallon I have to do them religiously and check my parameters constantly. Everything fluctuates so easy in a small tank.

Yeah, you're right. A 10 gal, nitrates build so fast, but in a 75, it would be a lot slower.

 

[librarygirl]

Think I'm going to go with a 40 breeder. I'd love to get a 4' tank but 40/45 long tanks are non-existent around here and I'm a touch too paranoid to try a 55. So I was looking at the 40 breeders yesterday and they're growing on me. I wish they were longer but they are deeper which would be fun to scape and the fish would have more room both length and depth wise than they have now. Plus I might not have so many worries about the tank going through the floor lol I can always upgrade if/when I move to a lower level residence.

Next issue is finding a good stand. PetSmart only has the metal ones to fit a 40 breeder and I need something with a cabinet to hide the canister. I might have to order online, we'll see.

I'm hoping by the weekend I'll have the tank and I'll either find a stand to buy or one will be on order along with some decor (been to 5 LFS here and not one has Cichlid stones!). Once I get more supplies and start "building" this thing I'll start a build thread.

@George: yeah you might be right about the Danios. They are nano fish though, very small, I was thinking a larger group would be pretty but you've changed my mind lol I will get 3-4 more females than I have now though as I originally had 12 and lost 4 along the way and they were all females so my M:F ratio is off.

 

[Malawi Freak]

You can do a metal stand with a curtain around it. I've seen a few that people really make it look nice and you would never know. I built a plywood box around the metal stand under my 125. I like metal just for the extra insurance nothing is going to give out on me.

 

[George9]

Think I'm going to go with a 40 breeder. I'd love to get a 4' tank but 40/45 long tanks are non-existent around here and I'm a touch too paranoid to try a 55. So I was looking at the 40 breeders yesterday and they're growing on me. I wish they were longer but they are deeper which would be fun to scape and the fish would have more room both length and depth wise than they have now. Plus I might not have so many worries about the tank going through the floor lol I can always upgrade if/when I move to a lower level residence.

Next issue is finding a good stand. PetSmart only has the metal ones to fit a 40 breeder and I need something with a cabinet to hide the canister. I might have to order online, we'll see.

I'm hoping by the weekend I'll have the tank and I'll either find a stand to buy or one will be on order along with some decor (been to 5 LFS here and not one has Cichlid stones!). Once I get more supplies and start "building" this thing I'll start a build thread.

@George: yeah you might be right about the Danios. They are nano fish though, very small, I was thinking a larger group would be pretty but you've changed my mind lol I will get 3-4 more females than I have now though as I originally had 12 and lost 4 along the way and they were all females so my M:F ratio is off.

Yeah, you definately want to hide the canister! Mine sits beihind my stand because it doesnt fit and I hate it!!

This was the stand I was looking at when I was planning for a 40 b.

Aquatic Fundamentals 50/65 Gallon Upright Aquarium Stand at PETCO

I thought it was pretty nice. The dimensions say 19.37" L by 37" W, but thats not true. Its the other way around, so it fits a 40 breeder perfectly. And if I can rember right, the stand is empty underneath, so theres room for the canister.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks Malawi Freak and George! Hm, I like the idea of a metal stand with a curtain or something around it. I could use Velcro to attach it and make a sort of "door" to hide the canister and I could get a small plastic cabinet or something to hold the rest of my supplies like nets and test kits. The wooden stand is nice too. I like it because it's a flat bottom and would distribute the weight better. But it's wood, probably fiberboard, and would be heavier and would take some assembly although I"m pretty good at putting stuff together.

The one I saw the other day looks something like this: Petco Manhattan Metal Tank Stand - Aquarium Stand and Fish Tank Stand from Petco.com They had a 40 breeder on top of it and it fit perfectly as a display. It may have been the only one they had though and if so maybe I can get a discount if they sell me the display stand. It's metal, so stronger but it also has 4 feet which might not distribute the weight as much. Although my stand now has two small feet on the bottom too. I also have a study full of books that has to weigh a good amount but for some reason that never worried me lol.

I think Friday during my lunch hour I'll go back to the PetCo near work and get the 40 breeder (cheapest price I've seen so far locally) and then I'll either get a stand there or somewhere else.

 

[George9]

Thanks Malawi Freak and George! Hm, I like the idea of a metal stand with a curtain or something around it. I could use Velcro to attach it and make a sort of "door" to hide the canister and I could get a small plastic cabinet or something to hold the rest of my supplies like nets and test kits. The wooden stand is nice too. I like it because it's a flat bottom and would distribute the weight better. But it's wood, probably fiberboard, and would be heavier and would take some assembly although I"m pretty good at putting stuff together.

The one I saw the other day looks something like this: Petco Manhattan Metal Tank Stand - Aquarium Stand and Fish Tank Stand from Petco.com They had a 40 breeder on top of it and it fit perfectly as a display. It may have been the only one they had though and if so maybe I can get a discount if they sell me the display stand. It's metal, so stronger but it also has 4 feet which might not distribute the weight as much. Although my stand now has two small feet on the bottom too. I also have a study full of books that has to weigh a good amount but for some reason that never worried me lol.

I think Friday during my lunch hour I'll go back to the PetCo near work and get the 40 breeder (cheapest price I've seen so far locally) and then I'll either get a stand there or somewhere else.

Cool! The metal stand with a curtiain is a good idea too! You're right, I think the stand was made out of mdf, which I've heard problems with. And it's just really cheap and crappy too lol

Just curious, how much are 40 b tanks at petco regular price?

Can't wait to see this set up! Are you planning on planting at all?

 

[librarygirl]

Cool! The metal stand with a curtiain is a good idea too! You're right, I think the stand was made out of mdf, which I've heard problems with. And it's just really cheap and crappy too lol

Just curious, how much are 40 b tanks at petco regular price?

Can't wait to see this set up! Are you planning on planting at all?

I'm leaning toward the metal stand if I can get one. Maybe they have more in the back but I didn't see any on the shelf other than the display one, as I said maybe I can talk them into selling it to me cheap, we'll see.

At PetCo they're $119. Not sure if that's a sale or not but that's what they were the other day when I went. Petsmart was something like $139-149, can't remember exactly. I tried a local LFS thinking they'd be cheaper but his was $169!.

Planting? Yep! I have a lot of anubias and java fern now just planted in my sand but I've heard that Cichlids can be rough on plants so I'm going to attach them all to rocks (as it is now my Corys tend to uproot one every now and then lol). I also just got three Swords that are very tall and would fill in the background nicely.

I'm also thinking of a 3D background this time. Nothing fancy, just something different than the standard one. I don't have the time or patience to DIY so I'm probably going to try one pre-made. If anyone is using one of these and has good/bad experiences please chime in!

 

[Malawi Freak]

Have you checked Craigslist at all, I'm always searching on there under aquarium or fish and occasionally see 40B come up and plenty of stands.

 

[Freakgecko91]

Just to throw in my two cents, invest in a good stool or step ladder! My tank is 24 inches deep and I'm 5'9" and the water goes up almost to my shoulder, and mine is only a 39 gallon!

 

[George9]

I'm leaning toward the metal stand if I can get one. Maybe they have more in the back but I didn't see any on the shelf other than the display one, as I said maybe I can talk them into selling it to me cheap, we'll see.

At PetCo they're $119. Not sure if that's a sale or not but that's what they were the other day when I went. Petsmart was something like $139-149, can't remember exactly. I tried a local LFS thinking they'd be cheaper but his was $169!.

Planting? Yep! I have a lot of anubias and java fern now just planted in my sand but I've heard that Cichlids can be rough on plants so I'm going to attach them all to rocks (as it is now my Corys tend to uproot one every now and then lol). I also just got three Swords that are very tall and would fill in the background nicely.

I'm also thinking of a 3D background this time. Nothing fancy, just something different than the standard one. I don't have the time or patience to DIY so I'm probably going to try one pre-made. If anyone is using one of these and has good/bad experiences please chime in!

Awesome! A 3dbackground will look super cool in here. I have not used them at all though.

Congrats on having your article on the home page too

 

[librarygirl]

@Malawi_Freak: Yep I've been trolling CL for a while now. All they seem to have are 55 gals or <30. I've seen two listings for 40 longs (emailed the posters but no reply) but no breeders at all.

@Freakgecko91: Thanks! I hope it isn't too high, seems like it would be ok, but who knows. Sometimes you can't tell until you get the stand home and put the tank on top lol

@George: Yeah I like the idea of a 3D background but I'm reading weird things about the foam and how you have to silicone it first and if you have to cut it it could make a mess and not look right. I might try it anyway. Maybe I'll ask on the DIY forum about it. And t hanks for the congrats, I was surprised to see it myself! That pic they used is of the 20 gal I had and my tank doesn't look like that anymore at all LOL

Here are some things I'm thinking of getting in terms of decor. Probably not all of these of course, just trolling and making a list right now. I might check ebay too. I just want to get some stuff ordered this week so hopefully by next week I can start building this thing. I hate buying things online sometime for tanks b/c you get them and they look fake or horrid under the lights. Most of the decor for sale in stores around here though are sunken ships and colosseums which is fine if that's what you like, I want a more natural look though.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/fish/decorations/aquarium-wood-small.html
http://www.bigalsonline.com/fish/decorations/driftwood-wedge.html
http://www.bigalsonline.com/fish/decorations/aquarium-wood-large.html
http://www.bigalsonline.com/fish/decorations/canyon-wall-concave.html
http://www.bigalsonline.com/fish/decorations/stone-wall-red.html
http://www.thatpetplace.com/layered-rock-cave-ornament-12in-5in-11in
http://www.thatpetplace.com/cliff-unit-corner-aquarium-ornaments
http://www.kensfish.com/product3195.html
http://www.bigalsonline.com/fish/decorations/styrofoam-background-rock.html
http://www.bigalspets.com/fish/decorations/styrofoam-background-tree-bark.html