What kind of fish for a 10 gal?

[millipede]

PH

I've got some ph results for the water here... Well, I got the test strips... that's all they had at Walmart os it will have to do. The water out of the tap isn't too bad... you'll kill me when you hear what the strips said the water in my tank was...
Out of the tap:
PH around 6.8-7 hart to judge those strips exactly but that's about right.
Alkalinity is 80KH
Hardness is at 150
Nitrites are 0
Nitrate is under 40
So as far as the tap is concerned I think there should be some decent fish for him right????

Now my tank is a different story... PH is the same as the tap, alkalinity is only 40, hardness is like 300, nitrites are under .5, but the nitrates read as around 200... that thing was BRIGHT pink...

 

[Menagerie]

8O
Maybe you should order some different tests to double check.

As for the pH, the possibilities are almost endless. He just needs to make up his mind as to what type of aquarium set-up he wants. Peaceful community, semi-aggressives, goldies....

 

[Beacious]

Ok litsen. Most of all I want a "Peaceful Community". I don't know if that would be Cichlids or Tpopical (I think I'll keep my Oranda in the 10 gal and get a 2 1/2-10 gal QT for my 55 gal when I get it. And then no more "Goldies".). My Dad is REALLY impulsive (He did the whole fish thing. He got in to other things but he didn't what the fish to die so he gave them back to his LFS.) and he got me a Black Moor. I put him in a fish bowl because I'm treating my Oranda for the ICK. The treatment I got is a liquid called "Wardley Watercare ICK AWAY For the Effective Treatment of ICK Ichthyophthirius FOR USE IN Coldwater and Tropical Aquariums". Is it a good kind/brand? I also got "Aquarium Salt".

Thanks,Beacious.

 

[Christmasfish]

Gonna have ta cuff yer ear..?
"Paya tention..I saya..payah tention when Ima talkin to ya thar son!"
If you are going to keep golds becuase you like them.. more power to you.
But not ask the board for other species to keep with them. The proper answer is NONE. May be if you stretch it and do mondio tank changes ALL the time you can keep coldwater bottom feeders or a handful of danios ..but in reality there are no other fish to keep with golds. It taint proper or health. !

Check the minimum tank size for that black moor your dad got carefully.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=856
....suggests what I am accustomed to, about 30 gallons for 1-2 fancys

http://members.aol.com/sirchin/goldfish.htm
...this person has more gentle tank estimates

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/care.html#Bowl vs tank
a whole goldfish forum that says 10-20 gallons per FISH

No matter where you look unless its my-goldfish-in-a-bowl-homepage ..serious fanciers and experienced keepers will tell you they are filtration junkies and space hogs! and not only should be kept in a species tank, but separated by body types! And that is not even bringing temperature into it!

At the rate you keep getting goldfish before even knowing what you want...(unless it IS goldfish)
You may as well just stick to fancy golds and get 1 and I do mean ONE more. Those ALONE will fill that 55 gallon!
Goldfish keeping used to be a pursuit of the well off with good reason! Now commonly available for sale....the upkeep has not really changed. You keep them in a bowl while they are too small to go in with the big fish, then a tank, then a water garden or pond. they catch ich like dogs get fleas becuase perfect parameters are usually not kept for golds.
Pet store golds are always..too warm, mixed with fast species and crowdeed for what they need in water use. just because all three crowd together in a one side or another and the rest of the tank looks empty does not mean their metabolism isn't sucking the nutrients and air out of every available gallon! And they enjoy light and that is nice for plants..they are omnivorous and graze plants as well as needing high oxygen.=Not good for plants. There is a reason most goldfish tanks end up bare except a few fake decorations. Fancy have been known to pick up small gravel and choke on it..or get the intestines messed up. And NO UGF! Period! It will be a mistake rued quickly. They are too messy.

I am very serious when I try to veer you away from golds.. They are a cost extensive species! Most PEOPLE regardless of age cannot care for them in the way REQUIRED. People with money; don't have the time. The one's with time always are one step behind their growth in filtration and tank size. Fancys have many serious health problem that will crop up with frequency related to how proper their enviroment is. Comets are easy peesy, but grow far too large for most aquaria and eat small tankmate (koi too) :?
Getting golds without looking at the tanks needed is like buying a car you can barely afford only to find you can't afford to insure it or repair it! Then what is the fun of owning it?

 

[Christmasfish]

About cichlids? They are a huuge group to choose from now that we see your probable water. And they ARE tropicals. There are many tropical freshwater fish out here.
Tons!
Graceful funny angels are cichlids.... and they come in many colors and p[atterns adn sizes.
As well as the oscar body types..... like the personable convicts. Some are yellow, some are blue, striped. Many are semi aggresive or loosely communal and in a big tank you can have a few other compatible species to add spice. They are the fish I was keeping in mind for your wish list. Some are very aggressive..some are nearly shy. Huuuge group of fish.
Because I am not famliar with all their needs; which ones are the community types; I hadn't put them out til now. But if you have those golds..you 55 is already taken.

 

[Beacious]

How many different ways must I say I going to keep my Oranda in the 10 gal! And when I get my 55 gal I'm going to get a new QT tank! NO GOLDIES IN MY 55 gal! I want a "Peaceful Community" whether that would be Cichlids or Tropical fish (I don't know! Someone please answer!).

 

[Beacious]

I'm treating my Oranda for the ICH. The treatment I got is a liquid called "Wardley Watercare ICH AWAY For the Effective Treatment of ICK Ichthyophthirius FOR USE IN Coldwater and Tropical Aquariums". Is it a good kind/brand? I also got "Aquarium Salt". Is a Black Moor a Goldfish?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[millipede]

fish...

Hey Beacious...yup, the balck moor is a goldfish... I also don't like goldfish in general. They crap a lot to put it plainly. They make a tank dirtier faster than any other fish I know.

Christmasfish, unfortunately he has the black moor but it was his dad's impulse buy not his... what can you do?

Beacious, What I would do, since you have time til you get your bigger tank, is go to a pet store, look at some fish, talk to the owners and see what they say, make a list of what you want(don't buy anything) and bring the list back to us... we'll help you decide what can and can't go together as well as how many of each... I think that will be the best way to decide what kind of fish to have... If it gets to overwhelming you could just get rid of the fish and go with reptiles or something... I could setup a cool natural tank with a little bit of local livestock... Those are fun... anyway, no rush... it's always good to take your time getting into this...

 

[jsoong]

Black Moor is a Goldfish! Even tho it is black. It is quite hardy & will be OK to keep with the Oranda.

No experience with ICH AWAY. Check ingredients, if it says Formalin & Malachite Green, should be OK. But you must use it for at least 2 weeks to be sure of getting rid of ICH.

Note that the Moor is in a bowl - this is not ideal. You must do very frequent water changes or it will end up the same way as the Oranda. BTW - did you check the ammonia & nitrite levels in the 10 gal? If you cannot keep those levels down, you'll keep having problems. Orandas are quite finicky about perfect water & run into all sorts of problems if you can't keep up with the water paras.

I think that CFish is a bit harsh on you. You can keep 2 goldies in the 10 gal in the short term as long as you have good water husbandry. But you'll have to get bigger tank as they grow (within a year, I'd say). If you are going to keep the 2 goldies, you MUST have a test kit & keep on top of water parameters from day 1. For that reason, goldies are really not good fish for beginners.

 

[Menagerie]

I want a "Peaceful Community" whether that would be Cichlids or Tropical fish (I don't know! Someone please answer!).

Simple answers:
1) Tropical fish are fish that need a heater.
2) Cichlids are tropical.

There are some cichlids you can keep with other tropical fish (tetras, cory cats....) and then there are cichlids you cannot keep with smaller tank mates.

Millipede is right--go to a LFS and LOOK and TAKE NOTES and come back and post your notes. With a 55 gal and a neutral pH (around 7), there are many, many fish you can keep.

Here is a link to a fish species index:
http://www.mongabay.com/fish/species_index
You can see the needs of each fish as well as pictures.
Fish I think that would be ideal for a peaceful community are: Corydoradinae (cory cats), Danios, Tanichthys albonubes (white cloud minnow), Bolivian or German Ram cichlids, Serpae Tetra or any slender bodied tetras, Kuhli Loach, Butterfly Loach, a small pleco such as the Rubber Lip…. I could keep going (these are the fish I like, others may disagree).
It is up to you to research the fish you want. You can use us as a guide, but ultimately, they will be your fish and your responsibility.

 

[AdamsZoological]

Coming into this very large thread late, and havent had enough time to completely read through the entire thing yet, so I'll just put in some basics, and, if I repeat anything that has already been said, my appologies. To start, Goldfish, and Koi, are two completely different fish. Koi, or Nishikigoi, as they are known in Japan, are taxonomically identified as Cyprinus carpio, Koi are Carp, the exact same species, the only difference is Koi is a name for the ornamental variety of the common Carp, but they are still the same fish. Next, Goldfish, are not the same as Koi, they belong to the Carp family, but are a completely different species, all goldfish varieties in the pet trade today, which includes Comets, Orandas, Ryukin, Ranchu, Moors, etc, are Carassius auratus. The varieties are highly variable, but they are all the same fish, all developed through selective breeding of the common goldfish, which was originally a fairly plain, bronze colored, carp-like fish. Neither of these fish would be a good choice for a 10gallon, as Koi can reach lengths up to, and exceeding 48", and Goldfish can easily reach lengths of 16" and beyond. I realize you already have an Oranda in the 10 gallon, but I also noticed you made the comment about obtaining a 55gallon soon. The choices to give the Oranda what he needs for a long healthy life, which by the way can be in excess of 15 years, is to move him into the 55 gallon when you get it, or try and convince your parents to build an outdoor pond that you can use for goldfish, and, I know this is just an assumption, but I think moving him into the 55 would be much easier for you to accomplish. You could stock that tank with up to three other individual goldfish, any variety that you would prefer, and the snails would also be quite fine to also move to that tank. That may not seem like very many fish for a 55 gallon, but, it gives your fish enough room to reach their full size, and, goldfish are very messy, especially when they get large, so much more than that would be a major chore to try and keep clean. As for the 10 gallon, my suggestion would be to go with some small, tropical fish. You can obtain a small 50 watt heater for the tank, and stock it with something like Guppies, Mountain Minnows, Zebra or Pearl Danios, or a small species of Tetra, or Barb. A 10 gallon can be turned into a very attractive tropical community tank, and can be quite a joy to maintain, and observe. As I said at the beginning of my post, I havent fully read this thread as of yet, so once again, if I have posted anything that has already been covered, I appologize. Good luck with your tanks, and I hope everything works out for you, and you can enjoy the hobby for as long as some of us have.

 

[Endgame319]

How many different ways must I say I going to keep my Oranda in the 10 gal! And when I get my 55 gal I'm going to get a new QT tank! NO GOLDIES IN MY 55 gal! I want a "Peaceful Community" whether that would be Cichlids or Tropical fish (I don't know! Someone please answer!).

Cichlids are tropical fish. And the only cichlids that are peacful are the dwarf cichlids, such as rams, which would be a great addition to your tank. Most tetras, gouramis(if there is only one male), rasboras, and livebearers are peaceful. And you could also get a trio of bala sharks, I dont think they are very aggressive fish.

 

[AdamsZoological]

Balas arent an aggressive fish, but, they do get rather large. Balas in fact, get much larger than most people think. The majority of people think Balas reach about 10", but I personally have seen several that were well over the 18" mark, much to large of a fish, even for a 55 gallon. With the Cichlids, you're right for the most part about Dwarfs being peaceful, but, several of the Dwarfs are fairly aggressive, and there are a few others outside the Dwarf category that are peaceful, as far as Cichlids go. Some of the more docile species are Keyhole Cichlids, Severums also normally have a fairly laid back demeanor, although they will go after smaller fish, and Blue Acaras are generally fairly calm, although, they do have their exceptions, they are after all in the same genera as Green Terrors, which on the large scale, arent really a 'beastly' cichlid, but still pretty nippy buggers, but generally, the Blue Acaras do very well in a community of similar sized fish.

 

[Christmasfish]

I am glad that some of the multi species keepers are throwin some stuff out to you..but (and a biiiig but)
*Intake of breath..begins*

How many different ways must I say I going to keep my Oranda in the 10 gal!

'I read this as..though aware by now that 10 gallons is waay insufficient for this fish and now this fish with similar company. I will have 2 goldfish in this tank. Because they are so small now and I cannot believe they need sooooo much space. I think I have pleeenttty of time. Despite warnings and articles.'

And when I get my 55 gal I'm going to get a new QT tank!

I read this as 'next tank bought is for QT...will have no occupants (no size mentioned either)'

NO GOLDIES IN MY 55 gal! I want a "Peaceful Community"

I read this as 'while totally ignoring the fact that my goldfish 's needs are no where near filled..I want a different tank full of different fish to cycle through in a couple months, to stretch my expenses and cause the goldfish needs to take a back burner.'

I seem to come on harsh but after seeing that I am quite concerned for your fish. I wish the best for your fish and you.
And I have been reading through ALL of your posts..but mostly answering you in this one.
I'm sorry but the fish come first. They cannot pack up and leave if they are unhappy (well maybe bichirs can!)
As my young daughter has said, "the minute you take possession of a living animal, it becomes your ward and responsibility. The beauty of its company that you as man formed it into, has taken it from ever being free."

I have not missed your point, your point before now was unclear.
It seemed you were a young person (and not a child's age.. a teen) new to fish that wanted a 55 gallon tank community...and had already mistakenly picked up a goldfish not realizing they cannot be mixed with most everything and are space intensive.You seemed to be randomly picking up fish that caught your eye.
Now you say it was with intent.
My point was if you can only get one tank in the next 6 months it has to be one or the other.... are you going to be a goldfish keeper or are you wanting a community tank. Maybe you are pulling down big bucks (or your parents will throw some your way) and have a good block of time to keep up on water quality... it is like 10 rung sdown from POSSIBLE for you to have both. I seriously think that is far too much for a beginner to take on. Specially without proper setups.
If you are about to buy two 55 gallon tanks in 2-3 month span for each plan then I heartily ask your forgiveness for missing that somewhere

All I see is 2 high-needs fish....goldfish; in set up that they will out grow in needs in less than a couple months.
Your goldfish are the ones who will need that 55 gallon or a second one in mere months if you keep them! And fancys are not good general pondfish. Your koi keeping friend cannot do much with just having space to put them. I was pointing out as kindly as I could that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You definitely cannot keep both in a 10 gallon for very long. Especially the moor. They will have out grown the 10 most certainly by the time you can afford the larger tank you speak of and definitely by the end of the year.

You notice jsoong mentioned the word..temporary with his 10 gal endorsement?
Most people that keep them in small spaces have their watergarden or pond space already in plan.

I am not anti-goldie...far from it. I love them. But after spending 5 years helping my grandfather care for them (and his labyrinth fish) I am well aware what PITA they are and that is not including how far inbred by the pet trade they may be at this point nearly 30 years later! They are really a fish meant for true admirers who are willing to sacrifice for them.
I don't think a soul here would say they are easy fish or good beginner fish or good small tank specimens. Not without adding a "if you do this" to the statement.
How can we help you set up your 55 as a perfect tank when as far as we know your goldies will be suffering and then either sicken to death or be given away.....As your first fish that you say you like and are wanting to keep ...they should be the first into a 35- 55.
Do the math..
A VERY loose rule of thumb for golds that petstores give you: Inches of goldfish = Surface Area / 30 (Surface Area = Length X Depth)
The way I was taught was divide Surface by 50! Because they specifically need a large oxygen exchange.

That's my spin on it anyway. It is not like we meet you on the street daily..you will take what you want from our advice and do what you wish ..in the end. I only hope no tradgedy develops because of it.
I will stop lecturing you now and go about my business. I am not here to pick on you....or anyone. And I believe fish can be for everyone. My soon to be 6 year old son has chocolate gourami.. two just paired up and spawned. And all I do for him is the 50% changes to avoid my house being flooded. My daughter is breeding a new Betta color for show.
I drove her around and only required her to show me her plans. Fish can be a relaxing and enjoyable companion for any age person! I have warned you as sternly as I know how that you have a recipe for disaster. If at a later time, you are ready and needing goldie-specific info or labyrinth fish info ....I am still around and will still answer you. I am not angry.. just disappointed and worried for your fishies. :? Not like THAT never happens in life. At this point I wish you good luck and hope nothing goes wrong (though you already have ich on your previously clean oranda).

 

[mengle]

Christmasfish, IMO I don't think you came off as harsh.

I completely agree w/ goldfish not being good for beginners. Many times people don't realize that these fish get HUGE!! I currently have 2 small fantails and they are growing at an unbelievalbe rate. Orandas will get even bigger and grow faster if properly cared for. Orandas and Moors typically get to be 6-10 inches. B

Now, being a big goldfish fan and having read every book and researching them heavily this is my recommendation. The Moor and Oranda will need to be in (AT LEAST) in 30 gallon tank. This is because of their size and how much waste they produce. A 10 gallon will certainly not due and a goldfish bowl (where your moor is now) is not acceptable for these fish.

So as Christmasfish stated you really only have a few choices, put the goldies in the 55g, buy at least a 30g or tank them back to the petstore.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[millipede]

you gotta love the pet industry and television. Almost anyone out there, except the people that know better, think of goldfish as fish in a bowl... That's how you see them everywhere you go. Anyeone here watch Sesame Street... Elmo's World? You know Dorothy... That's how most people picture goldfish... You got to Walmart and see 100 goldfish in like a 10 or 20 Gal setup... They seem to be a disposable fish as far as society is concerned... You alsways see it on tv... the "perfect" family that has a goldfish in a bowl, by the end of the show they have to flush it... I wonder why? It's very similar to the whole Betta myth witht their little cups... It's hard to educate an entire planet that has been misled for so long... It's tough for beginners.. they go to a store where there are "professionals" telling you that just about anything is ok... then you have people you don't know telling you that it's wrong... Some things that might seem like common sense to us are not believed at all by others... Like daddy long legs being poisonous... Myth... Yet I have heard school teachers say it... Human beings only use 10-20% of their brains... another myth... again, teachers have said that... so of course students and others believe it... especially if it's on tv... people believe soooo much... it's hard for most people to keep track of what's true and what isn't... what can you do?

 

[jsoong]

Sad thing about keeping goldfish in a bowl is that the people who tried it have their fish died in a matter of weeks or months. Then they give up on fish keeping all together ... <like one of my nephews> ... missing out on a great hobby.

However, not a few of us are hooked with that inexpensive goldfish in a bowl, and took the time to learn more & became successful fishkeepers.

All we can do is gently suggest/guide the newcomers. In the final analysis, it is up to each of us to learn from others, or to learn from experience.

 

[Beacious]

:x :x :x :| Okay, I'll try and "take notes" at the pet store (not Petsmart or Petco) on what kind of fish I want and that are compadible with each other. I want to do this and I want to do it right . Also NO ONE EVER BUY "ICK CLEAR" EVER IT KILLED MY ORANDA AND MY MOOR!!!!!! :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

 

[mengle]

It is a good possibility that maybe something else killed them rather than the ICK Clear, maybe the ick. I know a lot of goldfish owners that have used this w/ no problem.

Sorry to hear your fish died!! And research is the best thing you can for your fish now and in the future.

 

[Menagerie]

Beacious,
I am sorry for the loss of your fish. For a newbie, sick fish is the last thing you want. I don't understand how both fish died--I thought they were in separate tanks. Well, maybe I don't want to know--the last few days, I have lost 3 fish that I have been caring for since Feb 20


In any event, you have a new tank coming and still need help. Still looking for a peaceful community tank? My suggestion is not to "take notes" at the LPS. Instead, use the internet (no impulse buys there!) and research the fish you want. If you type in community tank, or community fish into google, you will get a wealth of information. This is what I did for Valentine's Day two years ago. I wanted to surprise my then boyfriend with a community tank. I printed off information about the fish that appealed to me--their size, water needs and temperament. Then I went to the LFS and looked at the tanks. I wrote down the names of the fishes I liked and any information that was available on the tags (I was a TOTAL dork with my pen and paper; but two years later, those fish are still with us!). Then I went home and compared those fish to the fish I researched. I found many differences between my quick on-line research and the info provided at the LFS. That's when I did more looking on the web and went to the library. It really was intense research on these fish (I have been researching dogs for over a year now and am still not ready to go get one!). Allow yourself time for this. Once this is done, post your list under a new thread and those with peaceful community fish experience can help you. We will also be able to walk you through cycling your new tank so when you add your peaceful community fish, there will be few problems as possible.
I hope this helps~~PM me if any of this doesn't make sense, or if you feel overwhelmed by the choices for community fish