what would you do? Illegal shrimp

[Masha]

We have a strange situation here in SA. It is illegal to sell live freshwater shrimp.

Apparently the black list has been updated more than a year ago to exclude many of the shrimp species kept in aquariums, but that new blacklist has not been made into law yet, so it's still illegal.

I see shrimp for sale sometimes, but I don't like supporting those who break the law.

What would you do?

 

[BL1ND1ND3X]

If its illegal don't do it.
That simple.

 

[Mebbid]

What kind of shrimp are outlawed?

 

[Masha]

What kind of shrimp are outlawed?

I can't remember off-hand the list of names, but it comes down to all popular freshwater shrimp kept in aquariums.

 

[henningc]

Here in the USA, it used to be illegal to re-sell sports tickets. People would sell you an ink pen for $100 and give you a free ticket to a sporting event. So long as the transfer between individuals is not prohibited, you are in the clear.

I don't condone buying and selling animals found to be a threat to the environment and that sounds like it could be the case in S.A. Where I live in the U.S. they have banned self-cloning crayfish even though they can't survive our winters. It makes no sense to me yet it is the law.

 

[Masha]

I don't condone buying and selling animals found to be a threat to the environment and that sounds like it could be the case in S.A.

Yes, that worries me. I've seen lots of speculation as to the reason for the ban, but no clear explanation. If there is a threat to indigenous environment that makes sense.

 

[BL1ND1ND3X]

I feel your pain not being able to get something like shrimp in your case.
I would love to order some live plants online, but I can't since live plants can't be shipped into California from out of state.

 

[Rjaber77]

Hey
What do u mean by SA !
Is it Saudi Arabia ?

I am here and there is one showroom selling shrimps but I need to be lucky to visit immediately once he bring new

Demand is very high on shrimp!


Thanks
Raed
--------

 

[jetajockey]

What would you do?

Don't buy illegal fish/inverts.

 

[Masha]

Hey
What do u mean by SA !
Is it Saudi Arabia ?

I am here and there is one showroom selling shrimps but I need to be lucky to visit immediately once he bring new

Demand is very high on shrimp!


Thanks
Raed
--------

Sorry - should have been more clear. SA is South Africa

 

[Mebbid]

I can't remember off-hand the list of names, but it comes down to all popular freshwater shrimp kept in aquariums.

Couldn't you find nearby hobbyists and trade them? It sounds like just the sale is illegal. It's kind of a grey area but might be something to look into.

Here in the USA, it used to be illegal to re-sell sports tickets. People would sell you an ink pen for $100 and give you a free ticket to a sporting event. So long as the transfer between individuals is not prohibited, you are in the clear.

I don't condone buying and selling animals found to be a threat to the environment and that sounds like it could be the case in S.A. Where I live in the U.S. they have banned self-cloning crayfish even though they can't survive our winters. It makes no sense to me yet it is the law.

It's still illegal to resell sports tickets if you're making a profit on it. It's legal to sell them at the same price you bought them though. It's just to prevent scalping.

I feel your pain not being able to get something like shrimp in your case.
I would love to order some live plants online, but I can't since live plants can't be shipped into California from out of state.

I wasn't aware that it was all live plants. I am certain that there are quite a few that are legal to bring in. Anacharis is the most popular one that is banned from my understanding.

 

[toddnbecka]

The concern is that a non-native species released into the environment may cause problems with the ecosystem, like the cane toads in Australia. Personally I don't see how shrimp would be such a problem, they aren't toxic to other critters or particularly likely to outcompete native species for food or other resources, but it's mainly a political deal anyway.
IF there wasn't any danger of someone dumping their unwanted fish/shrimp/snails from aquariums such laws wouldn't even be necessary, but since there have been problems caused by invasive species the laws are passed. When they do, they tend to ban everything regardless of the degree of damage represented because it's much simpler to enforce blanket laws than to depend on customs inspectors to recognize different species, etc.
It's ironic that cherry shrimp are illegal to sell in pet stores in MD, where I live, yet not illegal to ship them into or out of the state. In any case, they'd never survive the cold winter water temps if some were released, but the people who passed the laws don't care.

 

[BL1ND1ND3X]

Couldn't you find nearby hobbyists and trade them? It sounds like just the sale is illegal. It's kind of a grey area but might be something to look into.

It's still illegal to resell sports tickets if you're making a profit on it. It's legal to sell them at the same price you bought them though. It's just to prevent scalping.

I wasn't aware that it was all live plants. I am certain that there are quite a few that are legal to bring in. Anacharis is the most popular one that is banned from my understanding.

I was looking to buy some plants online and the first plant I looked was not able to ship to California and about 5 plants later all saying they can't be shipped I just thought in general that it was illegal to ship them to CA.
So you could be right but I just didn't fully look into it.

 

[Fresh2o]

Who knew that RCS were illegal to sell in pet stores in MD? I'm one state away (VA) and its okay. However, due to the cost at the LFS you are better off ordering online.

Perhaps there are indigenous species in SA that are available to you (@Masha) that are not available anywhere else. Maybe not as colorful as the hybridized types, yet unique in its own right. Idk. Good luck with this.

 

[Masha]

Who knew that RCS were illegal to sell in pet stores in MD? I'm one state away (VA) and its okay. However, due to the cost at the LFS you are better off ordering online.

Perhaps there are indigenous species in SA that are available to you (@Masha) that are not available anywhere else. Maybe not as colorful as the hybridized types, yet unique in its own right. Idk. Good luck with this.

There are two indigenous species, but they are illegal to own at all- the others are just illegal to sell. That sort of makes sense to me, it's the same with many protected indigenous plants and creatures.

I've even seen shrimp in display tanks in shops, but am too scared to ask about them. Contraband!

Maybe you have to meet someone on a street corner at dead of night...

 

[toddnbecka]

Illegal is one thing, enforcement something else. The shrimp police aren't going to kick in your door and raid your tank/s.
If you're really concerned just ask around the pet stores. I have heard of a few folks down your way keeping cherry shrimp, check around some other forums and you may be able to find/hook up with some. The dark side is calling...

 

[Masha]

Illegal is one thing, enforcement something else. The shrimp police aren't going to kick in your door and raid your tank/s.
If you're really concerned just ask around the pet stores. I have heard of a few folks down your way keeping cherry shrimp, check around some other forums and you may be able to find/hook up with some. The dark side is calling...

Ha ha! Yes - I've seen some forum posts hinting that a PM might result in a nice surprise.

But I'm not really worried about being caught. It's more that I don't really understand the reason behind the ban. If there is a real risk to indigenous species, for example? Or if it's all just red tape and there's not real risk.

I mean - I know I myself will be really careful and not flush live shrimp down the loo or whatever, but by supporting people who sell them, maybe I'll be supporting people who don't care about the consequences of their actions?

It's not really a question anyone else can answer for me I know, I was just curious how others felt about this kind of thing.

 

[Mebbid]

The salt water side of things are getting even worse. They have started banning some corals from even being owned, even if they are aquacultured.

 

[jetajockey]

Illegal is one thing, enforcement something else. The shrimp police aren't going to kick in your door and raid your tank/s.
If you're really concerned just ask around the pet stores. I have heard of a few folks down your way keeping cherry shrimp, check around some other forums and you may be able to find/hook up with some. The dark side is calling...

Way to promote ethical fishkeeping, not.

 

[jtez]

Illegal is one thing, enforcement something else. The shrimp police aren't going to kick in your door and raid your tank/s.

Don't act so sure, in Australia quarantine officers have been known to do such a thing not necessarily with shrimp, but I know of people who've been raided due to purchasing marimo balls.

Back on topic, I would feel morally ok with it because I know personally that I'd take care to keep them out of waterways and keep them ethically etc. but also because the law is being amended soon (if I read that correctly) and you'll be able to purchase them anyway.

What I wouldn't feel ok with is 1. selling them for a huge profit, or 2. selling to people i didnt know. 1, because its exploiting a relatively petty law to rip people off. And 2, because you never know what another person will do with them. They may go into poorly designed ponds that the shrimp can escape from if it overflows, or just carelessly be allowed into waterways.

Like you said, you understand it's wholly up to you. Whatever you do choose to do though, make sure you can get a decent price on them. RCS are hard to come by in Aus and people exploit that. If what you say is right and the ban is being lifted on RCS soon, that probably means price drops. Don't get ripped off now out of impatience