Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[Andy Sager]

What is the the possibility of a grown Angel, a couple years old, grown out in a 72G tank, living alright in a 20G for a year or the rest of her life.

I need to rehome her so my male can either have a new mate, the other female in the tank, or I can rehome her too and end up with just males only tank. The issue is her going to some one I know and who would take good care of her but right now only has a 20G available, or rehome her to someone I don't know. The reason I am wondering because she wouldn't be stunted and also the breeders seem to keep their pairs of fish in 20G...? So wondering...what the better of the two situations could be and ideas.

She is the fish in charge of the tank and never lets the other fish relax, the tank is not peaceful.

It really has more to do with size vs age. Case in point, my buddy has some Angelfish that were spawned in either a 10 gal or a 15 extra high ( same base dimensions of a 10, only taller) but are too big to keep in those sized tanks now yet their parents are still spawning in those smaller tanks. Considering that Angels are not big constant swimmers ( unlike fish such as Barbs or Tetras, etc.) the need for large spaces is not as important. What can ( and usually does) happen when you put a larger fish in a smaller tank is that the water quality diminishes more rapidly so it creates more work to do it successfully. Next, are there going to be other fish in that 20 gal? If so, what kind? Can they compete for food and space with a larger Angelfish? All things that need to be known to successfully answer your question.

IMO, if her purpose in life is not for breeding, I would suggest rehoming her to a larger ( longer than the 72 breeder IMO) community type tank where she can, hopefully, find places to spawn ( which she will most likely do) that won't upset the balance in the tank too much. She will be supplying a highly nutritious, natural food source for the other fish in the process. As for whether you know the person with this scenario or not is up to you. However, they might be better equipped at handling this fish than you so does it really matter that you know them?


Hope this helps

 

[Andy Sager]

I was able to snap a couple pics of the 1/2 black babies that I think are turning. What do you think?

 

[Autumnsky]

It really has more to do with size vs age. Case in point, my buddy has some Angelfish that were spawned in either a 10 gal or a 15 extra high ( same base dimensions of a 10, only taller) but are too big to keep in those sized tanks now yet their parents are still spawning in those smaller tanks. Considering that Angels are not big constant swimmers ( unlike fish such as Barbs or Tetras, etc.) the need for large spaces is not as important. What can ( and usually does) happen when you put a larger fish in a smaller tank is that the water quality diminishes more rapidly so it creates more work to do it successfully. Next, are there going to be other fish in that 20 gal? If so, what kind? Can they compete for food and space with a larger Angelfish? All things that need to be known to successfully answer your question.

IMO, if her purpose in life is not for breeding, I would suggest rehoming her to a larger ( longer than the 72 breeder IMO) community type tank where she can, hopefully, find places to spawn ( which she will most likely do) that won't upset the balance in the tank too much. She will be supplying a highly nutritious, natural food source for the other fish in the process. As for whether you know the person with this scenario or not is up to you. However, they might be better equipped at handling this fish than you so does it really matter that you know them?


Hope this helps

Yup! Helps clarify things for me. Perhaps some one in the aquarium club has a better set up. She would be a good breeder too as a possibility. In that I didn't know the person it is a matter of someone who might not know how to take care of fish that well.

Person with the 20G has a Yoyo Loach and a Gourami and presently a Betta which would be moved to their other tank. Has good filtration and does excellent upkeep on tank maintenance fwiw.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well, It's confirmed. 3 of the little 1/2 blacks are showing signs of turning. Here's a pic of the darkest one. Unfortunately, the flash washes out some of the lighter black in it's fins but it's def black.

And, surprise , surprise 1/2 Black pair #2 spawned today. What's got me curious is that yesterday was water change day and I had moved that pair into a 10 about a week ago +/-. I hadn't really been taking notice of their behavior because they had been hanging out more towards the back of the tank ( where the scenery is) so I just figured they were "hanging out in the bushes". When I got on the ladder to siphon their tank, there was a few days worth of flakes on the bottom of the tank. This means they haven't been eating. Tonight, I tried some frozen brine shrimp and still, no feeding. Yet, look at the size of this spawn!!! I only hope I can get these to turn to 1/2 blacks too.

As of right now, none of the new pairs have spawned but I am just waiting. I feel an explosion coming any time now.

 

[coralbandit]

Huge spawn!

 

[Andy Sager]

Huge spawn!

Thanks, I had little to do with it.
With that amount of eggs, I'd be happy if only 1/2 of them hatch and grow up. Ecstatic if more do.

 

[coralbandit]

Thanks, I had little to do with it.
With that amount of eggs, I'd be happy if only 1/2 of them hatch and grow up. Ecstatic if more do.

^^THIS^^
But I think you meant to say "I had A little to do with it"

I think you did!
But being lucky is always better then being good!
So 1/2 would only be 200 ish?

 

[Andy Sager]

^^THIS^^
But I think you meant to say "I had A little to do with it"

I think you did!
But being lucky is always better then being good!
So 1/2 would only be 200 ish?

Okay, so if you twisted my arm real hard, I'd probably agree that I had a little to do with it. I DID after all, set them up for success.

Yeah, I'm thinking about 150 - 200 for 1/2 of the spawn. I would just LOVE!!!!! to see a tank of that many all turned 1/2 black. I might not be able to contain myself if that happened. My next goal is to get the Veil gene into the line. I'm hoping my buddy's veils finally have some success. If they do, I'll have to do the ol' " Hey... look over there!!!" bit and steal a couple of them.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Your crushing it andy... Keep up the excellent work. Us lesser breeders are taking notes diligently. The pinoys would look great in that breeding setup...... Lol. I still want your critique of them and my solid black, lace, veil tales. He he.

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[Andy Sager]

Your crushing it andy... Keep up the excellent work. Us lesser breeders are taking notes diligently. The pinoys would look great in that breeding setup...... Lol. I still want your critique of them and my solid black, lace, veil tales. He he.

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There are no lesser breeders, only smaller ones.

As for the other fish, I'm working as fast as I can to get another setup going for new fish. Post some pics of them if you can. Maybe that will light a fire under me to get finished. FYI, It's almost assured that I am setting up some of the remaining tanks and vats outside in a shelter. If I don't, I may have to start sending the peas to some farmers to grow out and who knows if I will ever see any of the good fish that way?

 

[fish wrangler]

There are no lesser breeders, only smaller ones.

As for the other fish, I'm working as fast as I can to get another setup going for new fish. Post some pics of them if you can. Maybe that will light a fire under me to get finished. FYI, It's almost assured that I am setting up some of the remaining tanks and vats outside in a shelter. If I don't, I may have to start sending the peas to some farmers to grow out and who knows if I will ever see any of the good fish that way?

If the vats are going outside ever thought of digging a pond??

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[PoppaRyno]

Ahhh.... As i am doing this expirement now. Not with digging though. Container ponds. Back porch. abt 500gls... So far the angels ive been observing, as i just started this, are doing wonderfully. Might be growing at a bit better rate as well.

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[PoppaRyno]

Lighter Fluid engage.... Lol.

 

[Andy Sager]

If the vats are going outside ever thought of digging a pond??

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Actually, my neighbor is a Koi farmer so he has ponds all over. I see his issues with keeping water in them ( we have a very sandy soil here) and the problems when annual disease issues arise so I am not too keen on doing them in ground level ponds here. Also, I have too many trees on the property that I would have to de-root which is also something I don't want to do or lose the trees. We also have snakes, alligators, turtles, birds and otters and others to contend with which can be a real pain. I've watched some of my neighbor's prized Koi fly away in the talons of Ospreys and Bald Eagles. Lastly, my yard does have some flooding issues during certain parts of the year so all could be washed away. I had this building and the adjoining concrete pad all raised to my house level ( which is a mobile still on wheels. ) On/ in there, everything should be above flood levels. But Yes, I've thought about the ponds.

With the "containerized" approach, I can have more control over what's going on on a daily basis. Raising them above the ground will stop some of the critter issues as well. Being inside a sheltered area should also help eliminate the disease issues commonly found through bird droppings and snail intrusions. Plus, I get to see the fishies more often.

 

[Andy Sager]

Ahhh.... As i am doing this expirement now. Not with digging though. Container ponds. Back porch. abt 500gls... So far the angels ive been observing, as i just started this, are doing wonderfully. Might be growing at a bit better rate as well.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Yeah, spreading out the fry will definitely make them grow quicker. I also see this with the constant water changes in the grow out tanks. Combine the 2 and you got something there. That's the plan for me. Now it's just the acquisition of the concrete blocks.

Nice looking fish there Poppa. I'm working as fast as I can.

 

[scuba dude]

You guys blow my mind , Hardcore fish-heads no doubt. I am into fish but holy smokes ... have you considered medical help? LOL

Good for you Andy , and Poppa I all ready know you have some issues..

 

[PoppaRyno]

Issues???? Lol

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[PoppaRyno]

Yeah, spreading out the fry will definitely make them grow quicker. I also see this with the constant water changes in the grow out tanks. Combine the 2 and you got something there. That's the plan for me. Now it's just the acquisition of the concrete blocks.

Nice looking fish there Poppa. I'm working as fast as I can.

Yep. The 10% daily WC's make a big difference.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Andy Sager]

You guys blow my mind , Hardcore fish-heads no doubt. I am into fish but holy smokes ... have you considered medical help? LOL

Good for you Andy , and Poppa I all ready know you have some issues..

What you are seeing and reading is the actual difference between a hobbyist and someone who just keeps fish. I have been a hobbyist for over 50 years now and I can tell you, it worse than crack or any drug!!!! In all that time, I have only been without a fish tank ( or betta Bowl) a combined, about 2 years. Even my wife ( at the time) knew when we got married that she was going to have to split time with me between my Monkeys, my Dogs and my Fish. It wasn't a question of whether we would have a fish tank in our apartment, it was a question of how many and where we would be putting them. ( FYI, our biggest tank, a 75 gal., eventually made it into the bedroom. I got to watch the fish as I fell asleep. )

 

[Yagonyonok]

I got to watch the fish as I fell asleep. )

This is the true definition of living the dream!