Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

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Hey Andy, have you ever had rust on your spawning slates? I got some slate at home depot yesterday for my angelfish and this morning there was a bit of rust on it. I took it out for now but I'm getting a lot of conflicting information as to whether or not I should worry about it.

Andy probably answered water chemistry fish stuff.....
I have done slate roofs for 20+ years!
The rust if slate was new is iron in the slate IMO 99%(if not from metal banding used for shipping?)
Many different kinds/color of slate.
 
Typically, and sadly, many first time Angel spawns are on filter intake tubes which makes them harder to deal with as the tank needs the filter to keep it clean. Many of these spawns are also unsuccessful because of this reason. I have a theory that because it's on the intake tubes, the milt doesn't have a chance to fertilize the eggs before being swept away but this is just my theory as first time spawners also don't have a good success rate no matter what filters you use. But some do, and that's why I recommend artificially hatching the eggs to see if they were ever fertilized or if the pair is even fertile at all.

Getting back to your questions: No, the vibrations shouldn't be an issue and unless you have other filtration, you shouldn't turn off the filter. :nono: If your goal is not to breed the fish, I'd just let nature take it's course as other fish in the tank will try ( and usually eventually succeed) to eat the eggs which happen to be a very good food source for your fish. If the eggs all die, the parents will eat them as well. FYI: If the eggs turn white, they are dead.



One of the nice things about Angelfish is that they are usually prolific breeders so if the last spawn was unsuccessful, chances are you will have another chance at getting it right in about 10-14 days for new breeders. If your goal is to raise some Angelfish fry, I strongly suggest you put the pair in a tank by themselves with just a sponge filter, some artificial plants with smaller leaves ( so the fish don't spawn on them) and a breeding site such as Slate, Tile, Clay Pot or PVC pipe for example. If you would like the parents to try raising the fry, I would use at least a 20gal long tank or a 29 gal. If you are going to remove the eggs and hatch them yourself, the spawning tank can be as small as a 10 gal tank depending on the size of the breeding pair. Either way, an air driven sponge filter is the best way I have found to produce more fry successfully. If you would like more information on breeding Angels, there is a thread here in the breeding forum titled " Wigglers at last!!!" which is all about breeding and raising Angelfish by pro & hobbyist breeders. Just about everything you need to know was discussed on that thread so it should help you out.(y)

A word of caution, if your goal is not to breed the pair, I would still remove them from your tank, if it is a community tank, as breeding pairs of Angels can become extremely aggressive towards their tank mates when spawning time approaches. They can and have killed tank mates trying to protect their eggs. These are not usually one of the gentler Cichlid species that can breed in a community tank. :nono:



Hope this helps. (y)


Thanks Andy!

There are two other filters in the tank. This one is rated for ten gallons, (tank is 55. Other two filters are much larger. I just bought this filter to put some pothos in.

So far, there are only a few white eggs. I think I will just let nature take its course because I don't have room to raise a bunch of angelfish right now. Although I would like to raise fry later on.


Fishobsessed7

Money Can't Buy Happiness, But It Can Buy Fish Which Is Pretty Much The Same Thing
 
Thanks Andy!

There are two other filters in the tank. This one is rated for ten gallons, (tank is 55. Other two filters are much larger. I just bought this filter to put some pothos in.

So far, there are only a few white eggs. I think I will just let nature take its course because I don't have room to raise a bunch of angelfish right now. Although I would like to raise fry later on.


Fishobsessed7

Money Can't Buy Happiness, But It Can Buy Fish Which Is Pretty Much The Same Thing

Then you need to keep an eye out for the pair's behavior towards the tank mates. If they start getting too aggressive, you would be best to isolate the pair with an opaque divider if you can't move them to another tank. (y)
 
This pair here still hasn't spawned. Lots of slate cleaning and liplocking. Got any other ideas?

I know I should probably stop fretting about it but it takes my mind off of being irritated at the rams ;)
 
Over manipulation of their new environment after shipping can cause spawning stalls. I truly feel they just need to adjust and get comfy in there new environment. Sit backand enjoy their beauty as you wait for eggs.

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This pair here still hasn't spawned. Lots of slate cleaning and liplocking. Got any other ideas?

I know I should probably stop fretting about it but it takes my mind off of being irritated at the rams ;)

Over manipulation of their new environment after shipping can cause spawning stalls. I truly feel they just need to adjust and get comfy in there new environment. Sit backand enjoy their beauty as you wait for eggs.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

As Poppa stated, time is the fish's best ally. They need to readjust to your schedules ( feeding and water changes) and new surroundings. If you haven't had these fish for at least 4-6 months, I would just leave things be and let it happen when it happens. The lip locking and slate cleaning can just be them getting reaquainted or out of habit.

That said, this is why it is usually better to buy smaller fish and let them grow and pair up in your tank rather than getting an established pair from somewhere else. It's not unusual for breeding pairs to stop production after a change in location and water and some never spawn again. I had this with my trio I brought down to FL from NJ. They were a prolific trio in NJ and never spawned again in FL. Same person was taking care of them with the same food and tank but the change in water just didn't work for them to spawn in. They lived a long life but not as breeders. So keep this in mind. Just get the fish used to a regular schedule give them the best possible scenario for spawning.
Here is another trick for getting pairs "in the mood", make sure the fish can see other Angels. Competition is a great motivator. :brows: But you don't want the other fish in the same tank with the breeders. I just use a background between the tanks so that the fish can only see their "competition" in a small section of the tank. As I posted here ( #125 I think) I keep the front 25% of the tank open but the back 3/4 has a background and the breeding slates. Just to show how effective this is, I recently moved the Black Lace Veil pair out from their 30 gal tank with an opaque divider in it into one of the tanks on the breeding rack. In just a few days, I've seen the fish act more aggressively in feeding as well as towards their neighbors. They were quite subdued in the bigger tank by themselves. Today, just a few days after their move, I see the female's tube starting to show. They haven't spawned in almost 8 weeks when their previous spawn ( #2 for them) was just 4 weeks after their first. So that should tell you something. (y)


Hope this helps (y)
 
I've gone veil crazy, lol

Traded 9 medium golds I had for 5 silver type veils today, one of with has one stripeless gene. (broken pattern) I also had one black lace that I picked up last week. So 6 in total in a big tank to grow and hopefully pair off in.

I moved some smaller golds around to sell to the LFS in a couple of weeks and am totally redoing my little rack. I'm also now running pressurized co2 in my java moss tank.

Fels good to be making some progress for the winter prep season. If all goes well I'll be full tilt late spring.

I'll post some pics later today or tomorrow.
 
I've gone veil crazy, lol

Traded 9 medium golds I had for 5 silver type veils today, one of with has one stripeless gene. (broken pattern) I also had one black lace that I picked up last week. So 6 in total in a big tank to grow and hopefully pair off in.

I moved some smaller golds around to sell to the LFS in a couple of weeks and am totally redoing my little rack. I'm also now running pressurized co2 in my java moss tank.

Fels good to be making some progress for the winter prep season. If all goes well I'll be full tilt late spring.

I'll post some pics later today or tomorrow.

Sounds great man. Keep going strong.

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Yea, there is something about that Veil look on an Angelfish that just gets one going. :brows: It's the fish my Mentor always through up in my face when I would complain about how "unnatural" a new fish color or shape was. "Your favorite fish is unnatural too ya know." :whistle:

Just an FYI: you might want to keep a few regulars around just in case you need to use them to strengthen your lines. Veils do tend to be a bit more fragile than regulars. :facepalm:

Just remember, breeding is a marathon and not a sprint. You get there eventually, even with the ups and downs, if you stick with it. ;) (y)
 
haven't been on for awhile...

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on for awhile. Just found out last week my Dad has a very aggressive form of Cancer and they're giving him about 4-6 weeks. My last post as about my one pair of Angels spawning, again, but they ate the wigglers one evening. WELL, they spawned again a few days ago and the eggs are now wigglers. If they eat these, I'll be moving the slate to a 10 gallon tank to raise them. My other pair of Angels have finally spawned again yesterday so I'll be busy for awhile, maybe. I'll be heading to Austin, Tx next week to be with my Dad for a few days and I have no one to take care of the fry while I'm gone. Any suggestions on what I can do to save them, or will I probably lose these batches of fry?
 
Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on for awhile. Just found out last week my Dad has a very aggressive form of Cancer and they're giving him about 4-6 weeks. My last post as about my one pair of Angels spawning, again, but they ate the wigglers one evening. WELL, they spawned again a few days ago and the eggs are now wigglers. If they eat these, I'll be moving the slate to a 10 gallon tank to raise them. My other pair of Angels have finally spawned again yesterday so I'll be busy for awhile, maybe. I'll be heading to Austin, Tx next week to be with my Dad for a few days and I have no one to take care of the fry while I'm gone. Any suggestions on what I can do to save them, or will I probably lose these batches of fry?

Sorry to hear about your Dad. Been there so I know it's hard.:flowers:

The fry won't need to be fed until the are free swimming ( approx 5-7 days from hatching) but if you have no one to feed them while you are away, the chances of survival do go down quite a bit. What you can try is to use some kind of vacation feeder for the fry. I'd use the gel type opposed to the block type. This way, the fry might peck at the food due to it's scent. You might also try to put in some Java moss or other moss type plant to hopefully supply the fry with some natural foods. Other than this, not much else you can do besides hiring someone to feed the fry a specific diet. :( The good news is that I'm sure the pairs will give you more chances at this so if it doesn't work this time, not the end of the world. ;)

Hope this helps. (y)
 
Thank you Andy. I've got some Anacharis floating around so hopefully that will help. At the rate the one pair is spawning I don't think I'll have to wait to long.?✌?


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Tubes down and filter intake is being cleaned. Looks like there at it again! Seriously tho I have to get some slate! I guess eBay is my best bet or the upcoming auction of in lucky. I should be getting that 25 later in the week. I need to cycle that thing ASAP.


Sent via the power of my aching thumbs
Cn
 
Tubes down and filter intake is being cleaned. Looks like there at it again! Seriously tho I have to get some slate! I guess eBay is my best bet or the upcoming auction of in lucky. I should be getting that 25 later in the week. I need to cycle that thing ASAP.


Sent via the power of my aching thumbs
Cn

Get a sponge filter now and set it up in your current tank while you are waiting for the other tank. In a weeks time, that filter should be more than able to sustain 2 adult Angelfish. Instant cycled tank that way. (y)
 
Today was a good day. The eggs from the trio hatched today. :dance: There were more dead eggs than I would have liked but at this point, I just want swimmers from a second spawn from a single pair.:whistle: I also got a spawn from the Black Lace veils I moved into the breeder row last water change day. It's surprisingly a small spawn but that may be a result of the poor feeding habits while they were segregated in the 30 gal. I already see a better attitude in these fish in the new tank so I am not all that concerned about the small size of this spawn. I even saw a number of dead eggs rather quickly which is why I decided not to pull this spawn. If any of them are still alive tomorrow, I'll pull them then and see what happens.
So far, the other fry are doing great. (y)Too early to tell yet tho whether they will swim. :nono:
 
What happens when you have too much to do is that you forget to do "something". What happened was I saw the slate in the gold angel spawn look like it was growing a fuzz on it so I used some Peroxide in the jar and intended to spill the jar into the tank the jar was sitting in before I left. Long story short, I left for the night and forgot to dump it. Next day, I saw a lot of dead fry in the jar and a few were still wiggling so I emptied the jar into the tank. By the next morning, they all were dead :( So what caused this? Who knows. Could be any of 3 things and I'm just not going to concern myself with the "why" and just deal with the next spawn. Oh well. :whistle:

So this morning was water change day for the breeder side of the building and the original 1/2 blacks spawned again before I got in. I decided to pull this spawn just to see. After the water change, the Zebra Lace / Black pair spawned and I don't have a tank for the eggs now because of other fish being where they don't belong. :facepalm: So hopefully the eggs will still be there in the morning and I will pull them then. This is a pair that I have been feeding another food from my friend so we will see just how well they do.
The other wigglers are still wiggling so I am hoping to have a better outcome finally. It's coming up on a month since I switched back to the old food so I am hoping to start seeing some differences in the spawn. Fingers crossed because it is possible that it will take longer than just 4 weeks. :(
As for the Plecos, the male is keeping close to his brood in the back of the tank. All I can do is put some newly hatched brine shrimp in there and hope they are eating it. They should be old enough now to be off the yolk sac so I am thinking that they will start to wander around the tank in the next few days. Maybe this is the downside to actually seeing what's happening. I know they are there so I want to see them out and about. :lol::blink:
 
Well since I botched last spawn I'm letting the parents try their hand this time. I noticed yesterday that compared to some other pairs I've had these two take a lot longer to get things done. My las two pair would drop eggs and the male would work right behind them. These two seemed to take turns.

The spawn looks much better this time. It's been close to 48 hours and only a few unfertilized eggs.

15fllxh.jpg



Also the gold I was talking about

ziot4p.jpg
 
Yeah, fish are crazy. :lol: You think they know what they are doing then it looks like they don't.....but they do......sometimes... :blink: :lol: Just be aware that today's Angels are notoriously bad parents so don't get discouraged if it doesn't work out. Just make sure that they are fertile and a male and female. If you have that, YOU get to decide when you want to have some fry to raise. Just do it artificially. (y)

As for the second pic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong one but that looks a lot like a Marble and not a Gold. :whistle: Nice pattern either way. ;) (y)
If you are talking about the gold developing behind the head, this is called a "Gold Marble" and is one of the 7 types of marbles now available on the market. You can read about them here: http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/...orton-Article-Seven-Kinds-of-Marble-Angelfish



Hope this helps (y)
 
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