Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[sinibotia]

My kois spawned, Andy! Last week I took a nap, dreamed they spawned, woke up to nothing... this week I took a nap and woke up to spawning! I'm so hyped! Going to remove the eggs to a plastic bin with a heater and an airstone. When should I remove them?

 

[Andy Sager]

My kois spawned, Andy! Last week I took a nap, dreamed they spawned, woke up to nothing... this week I took a nap and woke up to spawning! I'm so hyped! Going to remove the eggs to a plastic bin with a heater and an airstone. When should I remove them?

Man you nap a lot!!!
I'd leave the eggs in the tank for a couple hours just to ensure they have been fertilized then remove. Make sure the tank or recepticle you move them in to is large enough to handle the free swimming fry.( Not sure what size bin you are talking about.) I'd use at least a gallon sized container unless you have a spare 10 gal available. I'd also use some form of anti fungal on the eggs once you remove them from the parents. The issue isn't the eggs. It's when the dead eggs start to rot, they can easily ruin the spawn by contaminating the water. This is why you don't want to use a small container. I still have my best success using a 10 gal tank to hatch but only having 5 gals of water in there to start. This way, you can add a small amount of water daily to help keep the water fresh once the eggs hatch instead of removing water then adding new. Too great a risk of over doing the change.

Also, make sure you add an airstone blowing bubbles in front of the eggs and not just inside the "bin". A nice, gentle flow is enough to keep anything from settling on the eggs.

One last note, using something clear and tall is always my preferred method of hatching Angel eggs. You want to be able to see across the spawn for when their little tails to start wiggling. It's also easier to detect problems when you can see across the spawn.

Good luck and I hope this helps

 

[sinibotia]

It's a clear plastic 15 gallon bin, probably filled with around 10 gallons of water. It's not crystal clear but I can read a book that's placed behind it. We have hydrogen peroxide for an antifungal! Should the bubbler be close-but-not-on the eggs, or can it run over the eggs?

 

[Andy Sager]

Follow this link: Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - Andy Sager's Album: Instruction charts
The last pic is a diagram of how the air should be and the first pic is the diagram in action ( in the middle jar.) In the diagram, the eggs would be on the side of the slate nearest the bubbles.

 

[Andy Sager]

So I go to check the eggs tonight before feeding and find that the 1/2 Black eggs laid 11/16 are already hatching. This means that either they spawned the night of the 15th or they are really starting to get some high powered fry going because they are in a tank on the bottom row with no heater and with a temp about a degree below the average room temp. This will be exciting if the fry survive as they seem to be in a breeding cycle that I have not had with them previously. Considering that they were only hit with Peroxide a couple of times and there are only 12 dead eggs in a large spawn ( there are so few you can count them all), it's pretty amazing. The other eggs, from the Zebra Lace and Black are still going strong as well. Same situation only these were definitely spawned on the 16th in the late afternoon. (I did pull them that night and put them into a freshly cleaned tank instead of waiting. I just didn't want to chance losing them to their parents. So far so good. ) The fry from the Red Cap had quite a bit of die off but there are still about 12 or so fry still wiggling and they should be swimming in a couple of days if all goes well. Fingers crossed on those.

Today was the first day I saw my Pleco fry out and about the tank. So 7 days after the hatch they start to wander. I've been feeding them BBS for the past 2 days so maybe that has something to do with it? I can see some dark coloration in their stomach area so they must be eating something in there. Definitely a new experience for me, not having to hatch and hope they make it on their own. My next big thing is having to wait until they are old enough to put into other tanks for cleaning. ( I'm not going to make the same mistake as before by rushing it.) I definitely have some tanks that could use some Pleco cleaning for sure.
I started the bottom tank for the new rack and now have some of the stripeless and Blushing Marbles in it. Their fins need to grow out on all these fish as they have been too overcrowded for too long. Isn't it amazing, I have all these tanks and still it's not enough.
And I want to add Guppies??

 

[mikey5290]

Glad to hear things are going well for you Andy, and I hope the positive streak continues for you.

As for tanks...I don't think there is ever "enough tanks". I am constantly coming across fish I would like to acquire, or fry, or fish in need of quarantine, or squabbling fish that need to be separated, or, or, or, or. And it doesn't sound like it gets any better even at your level.

Love reading your updates
Stay positive.

 

[Andy Sager]

There is a glimmer of hope, albeit a slight glimmer, that the fry fiasco is behind me ( he says cautiously) . Today, the few Red Cap fry that are still alive as well as some of the fry from the trio spawn started swimming. Granted, these are fry from fish that haven't spawned in a while so the real test is going to be their next spawns ( just as with the original 1/2 Black pair). But it's exciting to see swimming Angelfish fry again. Now, if the new fry from that 1/2 Black pair and the Zebra Lace/Black pair start swimming, I need to find an emoji for "doing back flips" as well as dancing.

 

[sinibotia]

I hope you're right! Glad to hear that things are going better. Here's my setup for the eggs- did I do it right?

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[Andy Sager]

I hope you're right! Glad to hear that things are going better. Here's my setup for the eggs- did I do it right?

Sent from my XT830C using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Positioning looks fine. Just can't make out for sure if the air flow is too much. If you see the eggs start to detach, slow the air down.

Next step, get them to be wigglers.

 

[sinibotia]

I'll keep an eye on them. There's 2 stones so if I see a problem I'll just move one away for more all around flow. I think I'll get some wigglers! Eggs are looking good! Maybe a dozen dead eggs.

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[brennae]

I've been doing a little experimenting with cory eggs. I noticed that if I added IAL to the eggs that I pull I get few fungused eggs. It isn't as effective as methylene blue but at least with the IAL I don't have to remove the leaves and they harbor little critters for the fry to eat. When I used methylene blue no fungus and when I use nothing lots of fungus.

Have you made any headway with yours?

I don't know about you but I really enjoy watching the pleco fry with their fat little bellies!

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[Andy Sager]

I've been doing a little experimenting with cory eggs. I noticed that if I added IAL to the eggs that I pull I get few fungused eggs. It isn't as effective as methylene blue but at least with the IAL I don't have to remove the leaves and they harbor little critters for the fry to eat. When I used methylene blue no fungus and when I use nothing lots of fungus.

Have you made any headway with yours?

I don't know about you but I really enjoy watching the pleco fry with their fat little bellies!

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At this point, I'm trying to breed the cories in tanks I can remove the parents from instead of moving the eggs. Not having much success with egg moving ( even tho I do the Pleco eggs with no issues.) But my mind has been elsewhere and if they breed, great, if they don't, no biggie ATM.

As for the Plecos, this was the first batch of eggs I let the parents hatch. The tank they are in however, is dimly lit on the bottom shelf and so not easy to see. In the past, I put the eggs in buckets or tanks that were higher and easier to watchso I got to see what's what better. Now, I just was able to see the fry clustered in the back corner of their tank until the other day when I spotted the fry now coming to the front of the tank. Now I can see their dark little bellies and when they are hanging on the back wall, I just see the dark spots so I know they have been eating. This should be enough now to put plecos in all my tanks so after that, the rest will be for sale.

 

[Brookster123]

One thing I noticed last night.. my rio paraguay pleco absolutely inhaling a few week old ial, like rasping furiously and consuming.. makes me think.theyd be paramount in a successful pleco/cory breeding operation?? Good stuff here as always! You the man andy!!

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[Andy Sager]

One thing I noticed last night.. my rio paraguay pleco absolutely inhaling a few week old ial, like rasping furiously and consuming.. makes me think.theyd be paramount in a successful pleco/cory breeding operation?? Good stuff here as always! You the man andy!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

I'd be more concerned and thinking about using the leaves if these weren't like 20 or 30 generations ( at least) domestic bred Cories that were bred and raised in the very hard alkaline waters of S. Florida. So softness isn't really the issue. In this case, with the albinos, it's the infertility, which may have to do with diet ( as I'm seeing with the Angels.) As for the Sterbai cats, these, I was told, are only about 2 or 3 generations from wild so it could be timing more than anything else. Unfortunately, my friend never really set them up to breed so I have no back history of their likes and dislikes. At this point, they are more distraction fish that focus fish. But I will keep at it and see what happens.

Today, I still have free swimming fry from the 2 Angel spawns so for that. I'm anxiously awaiting the next 2 spawns to hopefully start free swimming later next week. That will give me more information as for dietary results.

 

[Mr Fisher]

Yeah, fish are crazy. You think they know what they are doing then it looks like they don't.....but they do......sometimes... Just be aware that today's Angels are notoriously bad parents so don't get discouraged if it doesn't work out. Just make sure that they are fertile and a male and female. If you have that, YOU get to decide when you want to have some fry to raise. Just do it artificially.

As for the second pic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong one but that looks a lot like a Marble and not a Gold. Nice pattern either way.
If you are talking about the gold developing behind the head, this is called a "Gold Marble" and is one of the 7 types of marbles now available on the market. You can read about them here: TAS Library - Dr Norton Article: Seven Kinds of Marble Angelfish



Hope this helps

Thanks Andy, I didn't know if that one would qualify as a marble.


well I'm proud to annnounce success with them getting their spawn to wigglers. They have moved them from the front of the slate to the top ledge for whatever reason. back when I had a larger amazon sword in there pair would move them to the sword once wiggling.

Anyways, I'm happy with this pair so far. I think I remember you saying silvers did a little better parent raising since they still had some wild blood in them vs the very line bred stuff.

Here's a vid of the little guys.

I've got a seeded sponge filter to put in there. Time to fire up the brine shrimp hatchery.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks Andy, I didn't know if that one would qualify as a marble.


well I'm proud to annnounce success with them getting their spawn to wigglers. They have moved them from the front of the slate to the top ledge for whatever reason. back when I had a larger amazon sword in there pair would move them to the sword once wiggling.

Anyways, I'm happy with this pair so far. I think I remember you saying silvers did a little better parent raising since they still had some wild blood in them vs the very line bred stuff.

Here's a vid of the little guys.

I've got a seeded sponge filter to put in there. Time to fire up the brine shrimp hatchery.

I looked at the pic again and you may be right, not a marble however, unless you know that there is no "Gold" in the lineage of that fish, it's highly possible its just the gold coming out in that fish. The "Wild" gene in these fish today is so far removed that even a "Silver" doesn't necessarily mean it's close or closer to wild. I have some Silvers that came from a Zebra Veil/ Gold cross. I would hardly call them "wild" or from wild stock or close to wild. Just goes to show you.

 

[skylane]

These are my original marbles, but one of them has two different colored eyes and the body markings which I'm now noticed has a red or orange in the black stripes on one side and the other side is just silver and black??? What the heck is going on with this fish of mine. He is the other pair, that's with my gold angle and very aggressive too.
The white marble, has gold on its head which I'm noticing even more as these fish mature, their colors are developed out more. Not sure what to make of their lineage, but the combinations can create some cool patters which I like, but the one with the two different colored eyes is the smaller of the bunch and has a spilt personality, two different body pattens and eyes, I like him because he gives you two sides of a coin when you look at him, kinda cool!!!

 

[Autumnsky]

What kind of color/name would you call this fish? It is the freebie baby that came in my plants in the spring and it is probably half grown now. But was wondering if anyone might think it is a certain color. As for the pic being crooked I loaded and reloaded it and it is normal in my pics and turns sideways when I load to the album, even tried to make it off in my computer pics so it, might load right here but no!

I also got 4 double black babies from someone last week, very pretty too.

 

[Fishobsessed7]

What kind of color/name would you call this fish? It is the freebie baby that came in my plants in the spring and it is probably half grown now. But was wondering if anyone might think it is a certain color. As for the pic being crooked I loaded and reloaded it and it is normal in my pics and turns sideways when I load to the album, even tried to make it off in my computer pics so it, might load right here but no!

I also got 4 double black babies from someone last week, very pretty too.

Looks like a silver to me


Fishobsessed7

Money Can't Buy Happiness, But It Can Buy Fish Which Is Pretty Much The Same Thing

 

[sinibotia]

I have angelfish wigglers now!

I have some more silly questions though

What does it mean if it seems like some wigglers are almost "stuck together"?

My breeding slate is dyed blue. Is it still fine to put back with the parents?