which algae in the sump?

[pomme]

which algae in the sump?

which is the best algae in the sump, caulerpa or chaetomorpha?

has anybody had any experiences with either of them?

i have heard that caulerpa will go sexual and die, has this happened to anybody?

will this happen to chaetomorpha?

thanx andrew

 

[steve-s]

Chaetomorpha and Gracilaria are going to be your safest bets. Both are not caulerpa species and will not go sexual. It will also allow you more confidence in using a reverse photoperiod on the planted area for a more stable ph as well.

Cheers
Steve

 

[pomme]

are they both easy to kepp, and do they need the same light requirements as caulerpa?

 

[ReefLady]

IME, Chaeto requires higher lighting, and somewhat higher water flow than does Caulerpa. Gracilaria seems to grow much better when a good amount of actinic light is provided.

HTH,

 

[pomme]

cool do you think they will be alright with two marine tubes over them, one white and one blue and about 2000 l an hour wwater movement?

 

[ReefLady]

do you think they will be alright with two marine tubes over them, one white and one blue

I really can't say, I'm not sure what marine tubes are - & don't know the wattage on them? I know many ppl get varying results with Chaeto. Ours wouldn't grow at all under NO shop lighting (the Caulerpa had grown fine under it) - it seems to grow relatively well under VHO's, but still nowhere as quickly as Caulerpa.

 

[MantisFreak]

Ours wouldn't grow at all under NO shop lighting (the Caulerpa had grown fine under it) - it seems to grow relatively well under VHO's, but still nowhere as quickly as Caulerpa.

I would like to discuss this a little. I think that I'm the oddity. Everybody seems to have moved to chaeto. I have quite a bit of chaeto and I like it for the benefits it provides. Amphipods love the stuff and seem to breed in it as well. It doesn't go sexual, and releases very little gelbstoff.

Caulerpa can go sexual if not trimmed regularly and when trimmed will produce gelbstoff. A lot of times people say their caulerpa went sexual when what it really did was die due to malnutrition. This malnutrition can be due to not having enough food or light for photosynthesis, or both. I don't think that people provide enough lighting for their refugiums or they don't trim enough.

Here is what I want out of my refugium. I want a place where critters can grow without predation. I want a place where some of these safe critters can also provide plankton for my display tank (coral food). I also want a form of nutrient export.

I keep BOTH macro's in my fuge. IME, chaeto provides an excellent habitat for critters to reproduce. It also absorbs some of the nasties we want to get rid of but is not nearly efficient at it as caulerpa's.

Caulerpa's have some downsides but they absorb a lot more phosphates and nitrates and grow readily (at least in my tank). Then I trim to export the nutrients. The gelbstoff issue is solved by running carbon after trimming so that is a non-issue IMO. When everyone says that it will go sexual, I believe that this is caused by improper lighting or they didn't trim enough.

As you can see, I have more than one goal out of a fuge. I want nutrient export, a way to insure safety for a number of critters, and I want coral food from plankton. I think that using both types is a good thing.

Feel free to disagree with me. I'm still learning too.

 

[ReefLady]

MantisFreak (is this Curt, btw? )

I tend to agree with you. I do like Chaeto. (works awesome for packing frags for shipping!), but I'm not sold on the fact that it's a good nutrient export. I used to pull boatloads of Caulerpa out of our 'fuge every week - it would probably double it's volume weekly. Chaeto, OTOH, barely doubles it's volume in 8-10 weeks. IMO, that's simply not enough growth for nutrient export.

I also tend to agree that good pruning practices go a long way toward keeping Caulerpa from going sexual. FWIW, I think that the *pruning* is closely tied to the 'sufficent food' issue. If pruned back regularly, there is less volume of algae which need nutrients - it doesn't have to 'share' with a larger volume. Less algae = less food needed = sufficient food for existing algae.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to attempt to keep it (Caulerpa) when it's not lit 24/7. I'd like to hear experiences of ppl who trim their Caulerpa regularly, light it well, but don't light it 24/7. Our tank adds considerably to our electricity bill as it is. I'm not whining, but I'd prefer to avoid the cost of lighting a 'fuge 24/7 - also considering replacing the VHO's every 6 mos if used 24/7. Also, I like to light the 'fuge at night only - to balance pH.

Again, I'm not thrilled with the Chaeto. It's great for the reasons you stated, but I don't necessarily view it as a good nutrient export. I've been sitting on the fence with the idea of adding some Caulerpa, and some other macros back into the 'fuge. However, I would like to avoid lighting 24/7.

 

[MantisFreak]

Good Heaven's Teri,

You got me in only one post? Scary!!! Am I that transparent???

I will have the experience you're looking for shortly. I can't wait to bring the 200g sump/fuge online with the better fuge lighting.

I think that the *pruning* is closely tied to the 'sufficent food' issue. If pruned back regularly, there is less volume of algae which need nutrients - it doesn't have to 'share' with a larger volume. Less algae = less food needed = sufficient food for existing algae.

110% agreement there.

In my tank, and in my tank only (I have not done any experiments), chaeto has appeared to be a poor nutrient exporter. It does offer some benefit though based on my prior post. I'm not critcizing other's experiences. It's just that in my tank it did not do what I hoped it would.

Since I have more than one goal out of my fuge, I have liked it for it's advantages. I don't think I would like it if that was my only macro though. Only time will tell.

I have taken my lighting off-line on my current fuge during the day many times. However, I haven't done this with the consistency nor length of time necessary for me to feel comfortable making any grand statements about at this time. However, I have my theories and I think they are well founded.

 

[ReefLady]

Good Heaven's Teri,

You got me in only one post? Scary!!! Am I that transparent???

Nope, it was the gobstoff, gelstuff, gelstoff.... oh, gelbstoff. You're the only person I've heard use that word in years. LOL

Here's an interesting note. I had a conversation with Randy Holmes-Farley a few months back about Chaetomorpha, as he is a big proponent of it, and is constantly bringing it to our local reef club meetings. He lights the stuff with NO lighting, and insists that it at least triples in volume weekly. He suggested adding a chelated iron supplement, which I did for a while, but found no difference. Amazing how two different tanks run so differently.

He insists that my tank simply does not provide enough nutrients (high skimming, loads of LR, DSB low bioload) for the macro to subsist on. However, my currently Valonia issue seems to argue this point.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your new 'fuge results!

 

[MantisFreak]

It doesn't grow like that in my tank. 6 months ago I added a brillo pad size piece of spaghetti mac (I felt that was an appropriate description). I now have the equivalent of 3 brillo pads and I have not 'exported' very much of it. This could very well be because the caulerpa's are grabbing the nutrients first----I will certainly concede that. I wasn't willing to make a 100% shift in types of macro's.

It is funny how 3 different tanks can have such different results. I also tried IRON at first. I used Kent Marine's Super Chelated Iron Macro-Algae Supplement with Manganese for Reef Type Marine Aquariums. It helped a little but it also seemed to help my Micro-algae's too. Actually, it helped my microalgae's a little too much and that is why I discontinued it's use.

However, all of our tanks are different. It might work well on someone else's tank. All I know is that I have tried the latest and greatest. I like it for certain purposes and I feel it was a good addition. However, at least in my tank, the old way was better for nutrient export purposes. (At least so far).

 

[pomme]

cool guys i think i will go for the caulepra and light it 24s with a sinlge fluorescnt tube by arcadia, do yiou think this will be enough or should i get another one?

 

[MantisFreak]

I'm guessing you are talking about this lamp http://www.arcadia-uk.com/en/220marinewhitelamp.html

Unfortunately, I have no experience with these tubes and their web page does not say if this is a NO or VHO tube. Like I said, I don't think that people provide enough lighting for their macro's. If this has a decent wattage, then you are probably fine. However, if you decide to go with caulerpa, watch it for a while. If you see it turning white or clear, get it out of there.

I should also point out that Randy's tank, Teri's tank, and my tank are all set up very differently. I have not had any problems with my caulerpa going sexual because I keep it trimmed and I put the lighting closer to the fuge. (I did have it go sexual once when I had my lighting far away from it). I'm merely telling you my experience. Chaeto might work awesome in your tank.

 

[Hara]

IMO, I think the key to the success of a refugium is variety. I have chaeto, I have three types of caulerpa, I have gracillaria. Yes, I am pruning the fuge on a weekly basis. My lights are kept on 24/7, they are NO flourescents, stuff grows like mad.My lights are right on top of the fuge. I also grow the prolifera in several other tanks. It has gone sexual once, due to my neglect. If you pay any attention at all to what is going on in your tank, you will not have any problems seeing the
signs that give warning to the event. Chaeto, from all that I have read, just does not export nutrients to the extent that those of us with overfed fat fish, need.

One point on the pruning of caulerpa, do not cut it. PINCH it off ...hold the pinch a few seconds than finish pinching the branches off.

 

[MantisFreak]

IMO, One point on the pruning of caulerpa, do not cut it. PINCH it off ...hold the pinch a few seconds than finish pinching the branches off.

Thanks for pointing this out.