2 Flying Foxes in one tank are not a good thing

[tkos]

Well it finally happened that I had to move one of the flying foxes out of the 20 gallon tank. I figured that sooner or later things would get rough as the 2 fought for control. Actually the bigger one did the fighting. But up until recently the Gourami in the tank would always come over and chase off the larger fox for some reason. He would then corner him and slap him around with those feelers. This would calm the tank down for a bit.

But tonight the gourami and the large fox attacked the little fox, so he has now taken up residence in my 10 gallon with the cories and white clouds. So far so good, everyone is much happier.

Hopefully in a few months I will be able to get my bigger tank and be able to move him there.

Ahh what a night. I had bough the second guy when I didn't know better and the guy at the LFS said, sure they are a schooling fish, you should get him a friend. 8O

[William]

If a shoaling fish is left alone for to long, They become extremely aggressive towards their own species that they are SUPPOSE to school with.

If the guy you had alone, had been alone for awhile, either in your tank, or the LFS tank, or both, He could be in that very mindset where they no longer shoal, but attack.

[tkos]

Actually it turns out that flying foxes, like many of the giant minnows don't shoal at all and once they age just attack the nearest fish that looks like them. That is the reason you can't have 2 RTBS in the same tank, unless it is very long. So flying Foxes, once they reach a certain age do the same thing and it just got too much for the little guy.

[Fruitbat]

Flying Foxes, Epalzeorhynchus kallopterus, are well-known for getting aggressive as they get older, especially toward their own kind. Otherwise they are relatively peaceful toward other fish. They also have a tendency to stop eating algae as they get older as well.

This is why the 'true' Siamese Algae Eater, Crossocheilus siamensis, is a more sought-after fish, even though the Flying Fox is more attractively colored. C. siamensis tends to be a bit less aggressive towards others of its own kind and also keeps eating algae, even as an adult.

[TankGirl]

That is also why you have to memorize the tail marking because it is often listed at the LFS as a SAE but is actually a flying fox.

[Fruitbat]

Yep...but you even have to be careful with the tail markings because the Flying Fox has similar tail markings to the Siamese Algae Eater but the Flying Fox has colors in its fins while the 'true' SAE doesn't. Then...just to confuse things...there is the 'False' Siamese Algae Eater which has a black band that ends right at the base of the tail without extending into the clear portion. Both the 'true' SAE and the Flying Fox have black bands that extend all the way through the tail.

[tkos]

Yeah, I knew it was a fox after I had bought them. The oldest is about 2 1/2 and the younger one is around 2 years. Of course they were probably 6 months or more when I bought them. So far the younger one is doing great in his new but cooler water tank. Both tanks are peaceful. I figured this might happen soon but the gourami had been doing such a great at keeping the peace.

The funny thing is that when I bought them they were labeled Assorted Catfish. They aren't even catfish. And they label catfish sharks, go figure.

[TankGirl]

Both the 'true' SAE and the Flying Fox have black bands that extend all the way through the tail.

My Baensch lists the SAE, Crossocheilus siamensis, as having the black band that does not extend through the tail, making all of the fins transparent, while the Epalzeorhynchus kallopterus has a stripe that does extend through the caudal fin, as well as the black markings on the rest of the finnage. Is the Crossocheilus the "false" SAE? I really wanna get this straight because I will be getting some myself in the near future, and in my peaceful planted tank I need the real deal!

Tkos, I'll bet since they are algae eaters someone thought they were catfish, though they are cyprinids. You really have to take LFS labeling with a grain of salt, more like a "suggestion."

[Fruitbat]

TankGirl...

The Baensch listing for Crossocheilus siamensis is in error.

From Liisa Sarakontu and Neil Frank's article on Algae-Eating Cyprinids from Thailand and Neighboring Areas:

"false siamensis" is often sold as Siamese Algae Eater. More confusing is that many respected Aquarium books (e.g. Baensch Atlas, Volume 1, english edition) present this fish as the Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis). This fish has also been sold as the Thailand Flying Fox.

Here's a link to the complete article:

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html

From BearFan's profile of the Siamese Algae Eater:

True SAEs have very discernable characteristics. They have one set of barbels (the small whiskers on the sides of their mouth), their body is a tan-brown with black band that goes from the mouth all the way to the fork in the tail, and this band is in a jagged pattern

Here's a link to the Profile: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=5524

From a GREAT article in the Aquarium Gardener Series:

The "false Siamese algae eater' (often offered as the 'colorful flying fox'), probably a Paracrossochilus species is far more common than the true SAE (C. siamensis), and much more attractive, much more like the flying fox. It's comparative characteristics: 1) The lateral body band is smooth, not zig-zagged in appearance, 2) This band does not extend beyond the base of the muscular caudal peduncle, 3) The dorsal surface is not cross-hatched in appearance, 4) Its fins are distinctly yellow-hued.

A link to that article (with some really good photographs):
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/saes.htm

Hope this helps!




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[TankGirl]

That helps a lot! Kudos to you for your (as always ) thorough analysis-

[patryuji]

oopsy! It looks like I may have done my fish a disservice by introducing some true SAEs that I found (only took 8 stores to find them and it was pet smart who had em!).

One of the above links mentioned that they may be aggressive and territorial towards the Labeo (of which I have the red-tail shark). I have already seen one of the SAE I obtained "suck" on the Labeo for a quick second or two (the labeo remained still and both fish are currently the same length).

Now I noticed PetSmart had another species mixed in which had the exact same appearance (clear fins, band through the body and onto the caudal fin) but they had a gold very thin band above the black band. The black band was also smoother than the SAE's. Was this a flying fox? The SAEs were all together and this other species were grouped up separately from the SAEs on the other side of the tank at the store.

[Sati]

patryuji, I posted this link on the Puget Sound area board but I'll post it here too. This link should help identify which is which: http://www.petresources.net/fish/article/sae.html

[TankGirl]

Great link, Sati!