Newbie with an interesting opportuinty, Suggestions needed

[Spoon]

I am more or less a newbie to freshwater aquariums. I started a 20 Gallon earlier this year and have since upgraded to a 45 gallon (described in my profile) which is pretty stable.

I have recently been given an opportunity to startup another tank. Here is the deal. A really good friend of mine happens to also be the owner of my LFS. Unfortunately, he is a little burned out on the aquarium business (after 10 years) and there really isn't enough business around to keep him motivated, so he is shutting his doors. This leaves him with a bunch of inventory that he needs to get rid of. He would rather pass the deals onto his friends than to the deal-seeking vultures that are circling around his shop. So, he made some suggestions and I have to think them through before I setup another tank (or two) which is where I need help.

The setup would be 2 33 Gal tanks on a single 48" stand. One of the tanks is drilled (2 holes) and the other is not.

So here are my thoughts so far...

Connect the two tanks so they share 66 common gallons of water but I could still have differently themed tanks because of the physical seperation.

I would place the drilled 33 on top with one pipe as a drain into the lower tank and a pump would pump water back into the top tank from the bottom.

I was thinking of doing a planted, peaceful tank for the top (Clown Loaches, Neons, Rainbows, Discus) and potentially ciclids on the lower tank and not worry about plants down there.

My biggest questions are about filtration.

What are my options for filtering a system like this? I have a new Penguin BioWheel 170 and the undrilled tank has an Undergravel Filter.

How much filtration do I need for a system like this?

If I ran a UGF on the lower tank and the Penguin on the top tank would there be enough filtration/circulation?

What do you recommend for heating the tank(s)? I currently have one 200 watt heater (new). Is it suitable to heat one tank and rely on the circulation to heat the system?

I recognize that I may not have everything I need for the proposed setup and I am looking for more information so I can fill in any gaps. Any help would be appreciated.

I would also love any references (preferebly online) on pumps, any filtration methods suggested, setting up planted tanks (i.e. Aquascaping), fish compatibility, any setups similar to what I am thinking, etc.

I think my biggest limitation as a newbie is lack of exposure to different types of fish, particulary Ciclids.

 

[tkos]

Two things I would say to start with is that you shoudl stay away from a UGF. On a setup that big you need canisters.

The second thing is that if you want to share the tank water you have to pick fish that like the same sort of water. Tetras and Discus like it on the acidic side which would be fine for S. American cichlids but not African cichlids which like a high pH. Just make sure the tanks are compatible.

Also take into account the weight of 66 gallon of water on 1 stand and make sure it is sturdy enough (that will be close to 600 pounds of water alone).

 

[saberry]

Sorry to be a vulture, but before he starts slashing his inventory, feel free to make a post with some of the stuff he would like to part with and maybe some of us who know the value of the products can get a good price without your friend feeling ripped off by the general public who thinks that fish are disposable and no filter is worth $100. A win / win deal - sort of; sorry about your friend having to close up shop though.

 

[Spoon]

I am not sure how much stuff he has left but I am going to stop by today if he's open. Isabel is supposed to come through in several hours. If he has any big stuff that he needs to get rid of that doesn't sell locally, I'll get a list from him and post it.

One of the worst parts about him closing up shop is that I don't have a reliable source to get fish.

 

[Cherry Barb]

One of the worst parts about him closing up shop is that I don't have a reliable source to get fish.

Thats a real bummer Spoon. Maybe you could ask him where he gets alot of his inventory and see if you can hook up with them or see if any of his breeders are local to your area.

BTW, I hope everyone in your area comes out safe and sound after Isabel passes through.

God Bless and Good Luck

 

[Allivymar]

Just a FYI, but do be careful how you set up the tanks. The way you have described it so far, means if the power goes out you'll wind up flooding your place and be left with an empty top tank...

 

[Spoon]

I think the way I woudl set up the tanks could prevent this...

The "drain hole" would be almost at the top of the tank. It would be a pvc pipe that's about 1/2" shorter than the height of the tank. The water would only drain out of the top tank when the water gets above the top of the pipe.

I'll post a diagram if I can figure out a good way to do it...

 

[Spoon]

I think this is what I am talking about doing. The water wouldn't drain into the lower tank unless the upper tank "overflows"

I guess I could do the same thing with an undrilled tank and an overflow...This just seems like a dorkier way to do it. 8O

 

[Allivymar]

LOL pictures! I love it.

Do be careful even with that set-up; you may wind up with a siphon effect and the tank could still drain and flood; I'm sure there is a way to avoid it but I haven't the vaguest idea how LOL

I wonder if its possible to connect them side to side; wouldn't be a worry about flooding, and if the holes are big enough, and you add clear PVC pipe, you could have fish moving from one tank to the other *grin*

 

[William]

Sounds a bit to complicated for me, I'd just patch the hole with fiberglass [ or whatever should be used ] and just use the two tanks independantly.

 

[Cherry Barb]

Actually, I think its a pretty good idea after seeing the diagram. That helped to explain alot. Also, I think (I could be wrong) that you shouldn't have to worry about the siphon effect (if i'm reading the diagram correctly) if that opening is just a couple inches below the top of the tank. Now agreed, you may still have to worry about some ponding on the floor if the power goes out, so I'd look into some alternate power sources just as backup.

Definitely a cool idea! If you actually get it set up, be sure to post some pics!

 

[Spoon]

Yeah, there will be some water in the drain tube that would end up in the lower tank if the power did go out. I am hoping to account for that by not keeping the lower tank completely full. I figure if the pump is not too strong, the water won't be so high that 10 gallons are waiting to drain if the pump fails.

I did think of another thing this morning though. My gravel vac needs a siphon to work, and siphons need gravity. With the lower tank so low, it may be a bit of a pain to generate a decent siphon, and clean the lower tank.

I am hoping to document the whole process. Once it gets going I'll get some pics up.

Thanks for the support Barb. Do you know where I can get info on pumps? I have no idea who makes them or anything. That is the one aspect of the process where I am missing info.

By the way, I really like you tagline

To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world

 

[BillyZ]

a little info from the salty side. What you're doing is not uncommon in the SW world. You deffinitly have the right idea on the drain. be sure to cap the top of that pipe with some sort of diffuser to keep gunk from clogging your drain pipe. Note that your return pipe (the on the pump is attached to) should also be that high otherwise the whole tank will drain back through that one as well. Best bet is to take it to the same height and put 90 degree elbow on it to direct the water flow across the surface of the tank rather than straight into the air

If you don't like the idea of the return pipe going that high you can also use a check valve which will stop the flow of water if the pump stops for any reason. Some don't like the idea of check valves as it depends on the check valve working perfectly. During normal operation the valve is always open. So if any algae, gunk, etc builds up around the valve it may not seal properly when the time comes and you still end up with a flood... just a slower one

For a pump... given the size tanks you have look for any powerhead pump for a SW tank that you can match up to the same diameter PVC you'll be using. Maxi-Jet and Mag Drive are good brands and are submersible pumps which will help you minimize plumbing. Mag drive pumps have threaded in and out pipes which makes plumbing even easier. You can sometimes find them in LFS or in Pond supply stores as well.

HTH

 

[Punkymom]

You should get a Python to clean both tanks or make your own. There's somebody on here who's done that. It hooks up to your sink and basically does everything for you, no buckets needed. I don't think I would do the massive 50% on my 55 gal every week if I didn't have it.

 

[Spoon]

Billy,

I see waht you ar saying about the return pipe. The drawing I made actually withholds some information. There are two pipes that are the same height on the tank, and I like the idea of using an elbow to direct the water across the surface. I was alos thinking of using both of the pipes as a drain just in case the pipe (or diffuser) got clogged with plant matter. The top tank will most likely be planted which means there will be leaves near the surface at least every once in a while. The 33 is not super tall so the plants will easily reach the top of the tank.

So, I have to decide which configuration I want to use;
a) one drain and one return

or

b) two drains (just in case) and return the water over the top of the tank somehow.


Punkymoon,

I saw that DIY link a couple of days ago for the Python, I'll have to check it out again and see f I can figure it out. What didn't make sense to me is how the python drains the tank, but I only looked at it briefly. Also, I usually use RO water for my changes and since I don't get it out of my sink, I don't know if the Python would help me there. I'll look into it though.

 

[Cherry Barb]

Thanks for the support Barb.

Hey, anytime!

And I'm glad you like my tagline. I think the world needs a little more fishy love, don't you?

And btw, check the salty side for some more of that pump info. I started cruisin' around there myself and I may end up with more than 1 kind of tank myself. I just love this stuff!