PLEASE READ MY RESULTS: Test Kit arrived today - thanks*

[greenorchid]

I have the prime..... I'll just keep changing - how long is this going to last?

 

[flitabout]

I could be a month maybe longer. It's not laid in stone.

 

[greenorchid]

I could be a month maybe longer. It's not laid in stone.

Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!! that is not the response I was hoping to hear

I also just found out our town water is chloramine (a combination of ammonia and chlorine) and on January 22nd they are switching to free chlorine. Which will give the chlorine smell.

What will this do? and is this why I have ammonia?
Thanks

 

[severum mama]

You have ammonia because the fish are producing ammonia and the tank does not yet have a sufficient colony of bacteria to break it down. Prime will take care of the chloramine in the water. Keeping ammonia low is a good idea in general for the health of the fish, but it will not prevent a large nitrite spike. You have a ways to go here. I will second the recommendation for a python or aqueon water changer since you are already tired of the buckets. For my house tanks, I use one to gravity drain into the bathtub (you can also drain into your sink), then I fill directly from the tap. Add your prime for the volume of the tank while it is filling up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

 

[robbyno22]

I set up my 13 gallon on 12/29, on 1/11, I added the safe start, and again on 1/12. My cycle was complete on 1/13

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[greenorchid]

You have ammonia because the fish are producing ammonia and the tank does not yet have a sufficient colony of bacteria to break it down. Prime will take care of the chloramine in the water. Keeping ammonia low is a good idea in general for the health of the fish, but it will not prevent a large nitrite spike. You have a ways to go here. I will second the recommendation for a python or aqueon water changer since you are already tired of the buckets. For my house tanks, I use one to gravity drain into the bathtub (you can also drain into your sink), then I fill directly from the tap. Add your prime for the volume of the tank while it is filling up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Ok - i looked up these water changers..... not bad in price so which is the best and why? aqueon or python? thanks

 

[greenorchid]

I set up my 13 gallon on 12/29, on 1/11, I added the safe start, and again on 1/12. My cycle was complete on 1/13

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Oh theres hope* - Is that the same as quick start API? - thats what I have ... i started yesterday i'm about to put another dose in now ( i just finished another 50% change)

 

[severum mama]

Ok - i looked up these water changers..... not bad in price so which is the best and why? aqueon or python? thanks

I have both, and they are both fine. I'd buy whatever is cheaper. They come in different lengths so make sure you buy one that is long enough to reach your tank (although, it is very easy to add additional tubing if you need it someday).

Oh theres hope* - Is that the same as quick start API? - thats what I have ... i started yesterday i'm about to put another dose in now ( i just finished another 50% change)

That is not the same product. Most of the bacterial additive products don't work. Sometimes people have success with tetra safe start, but sometimes it doesn't work either. None of them are a sure bet. The directions on the safe start say not to test or change water for something like a week.... So you won't know for a bit whether or not it has worked, and if not, your fish will be exposed to high ammonia while you're waiting on the product. A week with no water changes in a cycling goldfish tank could be pretty rough. I do not generally recommend bacteria starter products.

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[Caliban07]

Goldfish Tank - 55 gallon - new tank - a week old

- one xl chocolate oranda and 1 medium red fantail



PH - 7.6



Do I have to take High Range PH?



Ammonia - .5 it was 0 but after I let it sit it went up. I just did a 25% water

change at 5:30pm - it's 10:30 pm now - if that matters....



Nitrite - 0



Nitrate - 10





so, what should I do about ammonia? - is this due to my recent water change or newer tank?



Thanks

Ammonia is created by fish waste, respiration, rotting plants, fish and excess food. What the fish puts out is know as it's bioload. The fish you have are known to have pretty large bioloads
.the more you feed the more waste the fish produces and chance of food being uneaten. Larger tanks are better to do fish in cycles but the bioload and feeding requirements of the chosen fish must be considered (I know this was out of your hands)

Your bacteria hasn't grown enough to keep the ammonia down but it will.

You must feed lightly. Some products detoxify ammonia for 48 hours and the cycle will continue. Just keep dosing this every 48 hours or whichever product you are using reccommends.

Expect this to take a month at least but your fish should be ok with prime as stated. I think personally you are changing too much water. There is no need if you are using prime.

 

[greenorchid]

Ammonia is created by fish waste, respiration, rotting plants, fish and excess food. What the fish puts out is know as it's bioload. The fish you have are known to have pretty large bioloads
.the more you feed the more waste the fish produces and chance of food being uneaten. Larger tanks are better to do fish in cycles but the bioload and feeding requirements of the chosen fish must be considered (I know this was out of your hands)

Your bacteria hasn't grown enough to keep the ammonia down but it will.

You must feed lightly. Some products detoxify ammonia for 48 hours and the cycle will continue. Just keep dosing this every 48 hours or whichever product you are using reccommends.

Expect this to take a month at least but your fish should be ok with prime as stated. I think personally you are changing too much water. There is no need if you are using prime.

Oh boy - so much different advice....... ok so water change less in order to give the tank the opportunity to grow bacteria???

I was doing daily 50% adding Prime, Stress Coat and Quick Start for the past few days - equal to the amount I changed out.

Is this right????

Also, I left my results from last night in the test tubes and it changed...... it is because it's old or did I not wait long enough to read results last night?

PH - 7.4
Ammonia is pretty much - 0 (yellowish)
Nitrite -0
Nitrate - 5.0

 

[robbyno22]

I have both, and they are both fine. I'd buy whatever is cheaper. They come in different lengths so make sure you buy one that is long enough to reach your tank (although, it is very easy to add additional tubing if you need it someday).







That is not the same product. Most of the bacterial additive products don't work. Sometimes people have success with tetra safe start, but sometimes it doesn't work either. None of them are a sure bet. The directions on the safe start say not to test or change water for something like a week.... So you won't know for a bit whether or not it has worked, and if not, your fish will be exposed to high ammonia while you're waiting on the product. A week with no water changes in a cycling goldfish tank could be pretty rough. I do not generally recommend bacteria starter products.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

My safe start didn't say not to test the water. I did it towards the end of my cycle, and it did help speed up the process. I added it with my wc's like the bottle suggested. I did put more than the directions called for (10mls for a 13 gallon tank). My point about using it is what is it going to hurt? Test the water after using it. If it works, great. If not, oh well, at least you tried!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Caliban07]

Oh boy - so much different advice....... ok so water change less in order to give the tank the opportunity to grow bacteria???



I was doing daily 50% adding Prime, Stress Coat and Quick Start for the past few days - equal to the amount I changed out.



Is this right????



Also, I left my results from last night in the test tubes and it changed...... it is because it's old or did I not wait long enough to read results last night?



PH - 7.4

Ammonia is pretty much - 0 (yellowish)

Nitrite -0

Nitrate - 5.0

It's not about removing food for the bacteria, it's just unnecessary to change so much water when toxins have been detoxified.

 

[greenorchid]

ok thanks*

 

[greenorchid]

PH is 7.8
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 7.0

yay - getting better*

 

[severum mama]

My safe start didn't say not to test the water. I did it towards the end of my cycle, and it did help speed up the process. I added it with my wc's like the bottle suggested. I did put more than the directions called for (10mls for a 13 gallon tank). My point about using it is what is it going to hurt? Test the water after using it. If it works, great. If not, oh well, at least you tried!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Fair. I was going off of memory typing on a phone. However, water changes are not recommended, and a dechlorinator such as Prime (which the OP uses) is not recommended, because dechlorinator products that neutralize chloramine somehow interfere with tetra safe start. Another published comment says that the a person's test kit is wrong and to buy a new one rather than imagine for a second that TSS didn't work... seems legit. Tetra Tetra SafeStart : Questions, Answers, How To, FAQs, Tips, Advice, Answers, Buying Guide

I'm not saying that bacterial additives can never, ever work. However, frequent water changes until the tank cycles is a tried and true method. This will work eventually. The same cannot *necessarily* be said for bacterial additive products, and in the meantime while you're trying to follow directions, you're exposing your fish to worse water quality than you would have by just doing a typical fish-in cycle. This is why I don't recommend them, just as some random person who has cycled a couple hundred tanks, easily. JMHO.

*edit* I just scrolled down a little more, and found a recommendation to add TSS with every water change to a cycled and established tank. This is completely unnecessary if the tank is, in fact, cycled.

 

[Caliban07]

Fair. I was going off of memory typing on a phone. However, water changes are not recommended, and a dechlorinator such as Prime (which the OP uses) is not recommended, because dechlorinator products that neutralize chloramine somehow interfere with tetra safe start. Another published comment says that the a person's test kit is wrong and to buy a new one rather than imagine for a second that TSS didn't work... seems legit. Tetra Tetra SafeStart : Questions, Answers, How To, FAQs, Tips, Advice, Answers, Buying Guide

I'm not saying that bacterial additives can never, ever work. However, frequent water changes until the tank cycles is a tried and true method. This will work eventually. The same cannot *necessarily* be said for bacterial additive products, and in the meantime while you're trying to follow directions, you're exposing your fish to worse water quality than you would have by just doing a typical fish-in cycle. This is why I don't recommend them, just as some random person who has cycled a couple hundred tanks, easily. JMHO.

*edit* I just scrolled down a little more, and found a recommendation to add TSS with every water change to a cycled and established tank. This is completely unnecessary if the tank is, in fact, cycled.

Read a lot of scientific papers on bottled bacteria. The best it does is add some minerals and nutrients that help bacteria grow. It doesn't contain the strains of bacteria that we need in our aquariums.

 

[greenorchid]

Fair. I was going off of memory typing on a phone. However, water changes are not recommended, and a dechlorinator such as Prime (which the OP uses) is not recommended, because dechlorinator products that neutralize chloramine somehow interfere with tetra safe start. Another published comment says that the a person's test kit is wrong and to buy a new one rather than imagine for a second that TSS didn't work... seems legit. Tetra Tetra SafeStart : Questions, Answers, How To, FAQs, Tips, Advice, Answers, Buying Guide

I'm not saying that bacterial additives can never, ever work. However, frequent water changes until the tank cycles is a tried and true method. This will work eventually. The same cannot *necessarily* be said for bacterial additive products, and in the meantime while you're trying to follow directions, you're exposing your fish to worse water quality than you would have by just doing a typical fish-in cycle. This is why I don't recommend them, just as some random person who has cycled a couple hundred tanks, easily. JMHO.

*edit* I just scrolled down a little more, and found a recommendation to add TSS with every water change to a cycled and established tank. This is completely unnecessary if the tank is, in fact, cycled.

Ok - you're losing me....... between this website and goldfish keepers website I have multiple people telling me to do different things.

ok - you mentioned you cycled 100s of tanks so tell me what to do now please*

1.) this mornings readings are:

PH 8.0
Ammonia .5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 10-20

2.) someone else told me that i am getting false readings because my town water is chloramine which has ammonia and the API tests don't work well with chloramine and prime because it reads ammonium as ammonia --- -whats your take on this? they advised to buy seachem multi test ammonia to get accurate ammonia reading with chloramine and prime

3.) someone else told me to do less water changes because I have to let the bacteria grow from the ammonia - whats your take on this?

4.) what should I do today? Thanks***

 

[severum mama]

Ok - you're losing me....... between this website and goldfish keepers website I have multiple people telling me to do different things.

ok - you mentioned you cycled 100s of tanks so tell me what to do now please*

1.) this mornings readings are:

PH 8.0
Ammonia .5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 10-20

Not bad. Keep doing what you are doing. I would not let ammonia go much over .5 because ammonia toxicity rises as pH rises, thus, the same concentration of ammonia is more toxic at pH 8.0 than pH 7.0, for example. Here's a little reading for you. Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice

2.) someone else told me that i am getting false readings because my town water is chloramine which has ammonia and the API tests don't work well with chloramine and prime because it reads ammonium as ammonia --- -whats your take on this? they advised to buy seachem multi test ammonia to get accurate ammonia reading with chloramine and prime

I don't know the answer to this question. My water supply uses chlorine and it's been years since I've had to deal with chloramine.

3.) someone else told me to do less water changes because I have to let the bacteria grow from the ammonia - whats your take on this?

I wouldn't, just due to higher ammonia toxicity at higher pH. The bacteria will grow eventually.

4.) what should I do today? Thanks***
Nothing, until the ammonia starts to rise again.

Comments in bold, hope this is helpful.

 

[greenorchid]

Comments in bold, hope this is helpful.

thank you*

 

[Caliban07]

Ok - you're losing me....... between this website and goldfish keepers website I have multiple people telling me to do different things.



ok - you mentioned you cycled 100s of tanks so tell me what to do now please*



1.) this mornings readings are:



PH 8.0

Ammonia .5

Nitrite 0

Nitrate between 10-20



2.) someone else told me that i am getting false readings because my town water is chloramine which has ammonia and the API tests don't work well with chloramine and prime because it reads ammonium as ammonia --- -whats your take on this? they advised to buy seachem multi test ammonia to get accurate ammonia reading with chloramine and prime



3.) someone else told me to do less water changes because I have to let the bacteria grow from the ammonia - whats your take on this?



4.) what should I do today? Thanks***

Yes chloramines are chlorine and ammonia. When you dechlorinate the water it leaves ammonia behind. Not much though. The API test kit measures total ammonia (TAN) this is a mixture of ammonia and ammonium. Free ammonia is the toxic part of TAN and the API tester does not distinguish.
The percentage of free ammonia in your aquarium rises with temp and ph.

Have a look at the link.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

You will probably find you are in the green without using prime. But the problem is nitrites. The more TAN the more nitrites. Nitrites affect fish depending on size and species. Just watch for both rising.