Talking... Endlers Livebearers!

[emeraldking]

El Tigre or something like that!

They look somewhat like El tigre endlers but not quite. At least, the males though. But if I look at soe of your females, it´s not common that the females also have a black crescent in the caudal if they have to be El tigre endlers. They do look like a mix of El tigre and something else. If I look at my tuxedo endlers (aka Black flame endlers), the females are a bit darker on the body like some of yours. The tuxedo endler is a hybrid strain, btw. I don't think this is a pure strain what you've got there. It's mixed with something else. But I can't say with what.


But do they look interesting? To me they are...

 

[Autumnsky]

The little lace on the dorsal fin leads me to believe mixed up too. Anyway They are gorgeous to me. Can't wait to see what happens in the babies!

All the rest went into the 80G.

Babies are tiny fry excepting maybe 3 juveniles. I put them in there also with them and they are almost all really tiny.

When I got the group they were all young and mostly could see only females and then these males grew up. And the now few juveniles were tiny fry then.

They should be still growing for awhile.

They have been in a really low flow 20G long with a little AC 20 filter and extra media in the tank.

Now they are in a really high flow tank now with 2 350G pumps and a Fluval FX-5 which probably moves 550 gallons.

They are really getting a work out swimming now! Although there is a low flow spot in the corner where they fry and group hang out a lot!

Bag in tank has large stones helping hold down the Cypress knees DW, in hopes it saturates and will stay put. It wants to bob like a cork.

 

[Fishlegend]

Will you

Will you be willing to give me some endlers I am worried about acquiring commercially sold endlers because their is a big problem with inbreeding and you seem to have some healthy genes in your colony and it appears you have an overflow of babies. Thanks! Please PM

 

[Autumnsky]

After this next batch of babies grow - so I can see what they look like, I will be keeping some and finding new homes for a BUNCH, mostly pregnant females. :brow: 2 months maybe, more likely 3 months - so coming soon & will post what will happen. I need the next batch of males for my 72G tank. Even some of the other males I have now will be available then. I will PM you soon.

 

[earhtmother]

Wish I was closer I'd definitely take some.

 

[Autumnsky]

Going to be digging into my older stuff looking for some Kordon Breather bags soon. Or order them, what I have might be all very shrimpy sized ones. It is too bad they are ~$1.00 each.

 

[emeraldking]

Going to be digging into my older stuff looking for some Kordon Breather bags soon. Or order them, what I have might be all very shrimpy sized ones. It is too bad they are ~$1.00 each.

Yes, breather bags are really pricey... Fortunately, I still have sufficient of those bigger ones. In my opinion the best way to put those fish in when they'll be shipped.

 

[Autumnsky]

Yes, breather bags are really pricey... Fortunately, I still have sufficient of those bigger ones. In my opinion the best way to put those fish in when they'll be shipped.

There are knock off versions but I have no experience with them. The Kordon breather bags work. I shipped and the post office lost my package, arrived at the destination 30 days after mailing. And one shrimp made it alive. Of course not a good situation in the least. But 1 shrimp made it.

 

[Fishlegend]

Wow

That's impressive that's the kinda stories I'd tell my grand children. Lol

 

[Autumnsky]

A new pic from the 80G

And a few from the Hornwort capital 30G Waterbox

 

[TMaier]

Hornwort is ruling there. Fish look happy!

 

[Autumnsky]

Hornwort is ruling there. Fish look happy!

And hungry - always "starving".


Last week In searching for something else, found the correct tubing for my long Fluval Edge vac. It worked perfectly and was able to vac on the front and front sides to get the muck out. Who knows what else I will find as I keep cleaning!

There was a nice sized pwc and added calcium, in hopes of appeasing the Hornwort gods.

Saw some pretty color on a couple Panda Endler young ones!!! finally! Will be watching to make sure they are males.

Planning to do a visual sweep if there are any new males colored up in the 30G grow out Waterbox and will move them over if found. I think I saw one while doing the pwc.

 

[Autumnsky]

If anyone is around I would like to bounce off an issue?

The "Panda" Endlers, sold as such with just very young females and small fry has now produced a El Tigre looking Endler male as pictured previously with the slant black bar and the pink spot. Still very young and pale/ not in full color.

But he was able to impregnate all the young females already.

?????
So the question is were these maybe not really Panda (- bought from the auction- so I don't really know, and of course you don't either, so just guess along with me), maybe El Tigre.

General thought, is there even an actual Panda Endler which isn't crossed to a Guppy?

I see it might be a hybridized strain, but not an actual Endler? I was looking for an answer but didn't find one.

Panda Guppy and Panda Endler look very different though.

So does anyone think it matters if I just throw them all into the same group?

It is certain they came from the same auction seller as the Endler colony which males are shown above. And that that group have 2 different males, and they could have just separated these darker colored females, because of their color.

The Endler Colony group had only clear females.

Whereas the so called Panda females have black net look to the body with black shading on tails and dorsal.

In interweb search, there were mostly pics with El Tigre and Panda Endler with mostly clear females a shadow of color on one pic with the tail of El Tigre female.

So...

Throw these 5 "Panda" females and babies into the "Endler colony" where other offspring will likely be the same or into the general mixed Endlers and Guppies?

They need to come out of their temporary 5G with 2 filters, now that their are babies growing up.

Thoughts, ideas?

 

[Fishlegend]

Ooh sounds Luke your in a pickle!

I know this probably isn't helping but are all your stock ruined because of te rouge fish breeding?

 

[Desperado070]

What? you saying there are other fish besides guppies?
Lies!!!

 

[Autumnsky]

The ones in question are from the CAS mini fish auction a few months ago.

2 bags of fish
1 was identified as Panda Endlers

2nd bag as Endler colony.

They all came as young females and and young fry. In trying to figure out what I bought I hoped they were a single strain and not mixed.

Endler Colony group was identified as having 2 types of Endlers evidenced by the 2 different males coming from the group. So although a colony not a single strain.

Over the months they have grown up. It has taken longer time for the Panda group.

BUT the first male big enough to identify as a specific Endler is a different variety, not Panda, but looks like El Tigre.

So.

I was hopeful they were not mixed. But the Panda, might not be panda but maybe El Tigre or mixed.

This is El Tigre looking Endlers, but also what the "Panda" little guy looked like (but younger) So the "Pandas" might be mixed or a different variety not Panda

This is how they came and now getting older can actually see what they might be.

 

[Autumnsky]

What? you saying there are other fish than guppies?
Lies!!!

No. Just Endlers, but different Endlers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

But the question is put them where the other similar Endlers which also have El Tigre looking babies growing up - or throw them into the Guppy Endler mix mash tank.

This is the "Endlers Colony" group in the 80G

And from the babies of this "Colony" also came these baby males and of course females but I can;t tell which they are - as basically the same color.

These pink and black spots were in the growout babies of the Colony group but removed when they went into the 80G (to the male Guppy Endlers 72G)


So what are the thoughts ?

Add to the mixed tank or into the 80G?

 

[Desperado070]

No. Just Endlers, but different Endlers.

haha, yup.

 

[Fishlegend]

Mixed tank cause they look questionable.

 

[Autumnsky]

Thanks for the thoughts - still mulling this over, will maybe get to this tomorrow but likely Wednesday. Several projects are sucking out my free time.