DROPSY?? ****, now i think poor Ponyo's got Dropsy!

[Donna]

*heavy sigh*
still no finding out what's up with poor Glimmer (still trying to get pics. gonna video her and take stills from that! stand by)

but after having looked at the symptoms chart that logansmomma gave me, i was checking on her when i noticed Ponyo's scales were all stuck out on one side, and he's not using his front(i can't spell it so "front fin" will do!) fin on that side. it looks horribly like a case of dropsy!! does it only appear on one side though? all the pics i've seen are both sides swollen and all over "pine cone" effect!
as far as i'm aware, my water parameters are ok (won't be able to check for a few days coz i just cleaned out! D'oh!) I haven't changed their diet in a long time, see what you make of this. three days on tetrafin flakes for goldfish, followed by a day of 1/2 cube bloodworms and 1/2 cube Daphnia. is this an ok diet?

all the fish have been sulking today it seems, definately something going on and they ALL know it! (that's why i cleaned them out, they usually like a water change, three of the fish like their cuddles - basically they love swiming around my fingers, and glimmer usually has a tickle on the belly, gently!) at least for now they seem distracted by munching on the algae scrapings and stuff stirred up by the "poover". (that's gross by the way fishies!)

well i guess i'll get back to trying to get images, not a lot i can expect from you guys without being able to have a look at the problem right?

but in the meantime could you let me know if there are other illnesses that involve scales being pushed out? also, i can't seem to find a product with the meds for dropsy (nothing recognizable in the uk) know any brands etc?

 

[jsoong]

There is certainly something going on & the possibilities are all bad.

If the fish has scales sticking out like the dropsy picture, that is indicative of edema (swelling of the tissues). This is basically non-specific, and indicative of water retention usually secondary to kidney failure. If the edema is in the belly, that is ascitis, if it is all over then it is called dropsy. Very localized swelling may be from a local inflammation (say a local infection or a parasite.) Look also at the eyes, are they sticking out? If so, that is generalized edema (or dropsy) even if only part of the scales are pineconed.

There are many different causes for the dropsy/ascitis, only a few are treatable. I would suggest you treat the entire tank, since you are having problems with more than one fish, this is likely something infectious that all the fish can catch.

You will not find any antibiotic food in the UK without a vet prescription. <Someone else from the UK really tried, that is how I found out that all OTC antibiotics are banned in the EU.> If you know a friendly vet, or someone who works in a hospital & can get a hold of iv antibiotics (I would suggest gentamycin or clindamycin & metronidazole +/- a cepholosporin), I have recipes for making your own antibiotic foods. Otherwise, you are limited to "hobbyist" treatments, as follows:

1. Keep super clean water, do daily water changes- see my reply to your other post.
2. Treat any open ulcers/wounds topically with 1/2 strength H2O2 (1.5%) or betadine ointment applied with a q-tip.
3. Increase the temperature to high 70's or low 80's (25-27C). The high temp may kill off some bacteria such as aeromonas. If you push the temp, do it only a degree every few hours. You must have good water aeration & only increase the temp if the fish are not stressed.
4. Consider salt if there is no evidence of dropsy. You would add salt at 0.1% every 12-24 hrs 3 times to make up final tank concentration of 0.3%. This is effective for many surface parasites & also surface flexobacter (columnaris). Do not use salt for dropsy.
5. Use Epsom's salt (MgSO4) at 1/4 tsp per 5 gal to help with dropsy symptomatically.
5a. If you use salt or Epsom's salt, remember to add the appropriate amount with each pwc. Your goal is to maintain constant levels.
6. You may continue with the Melafix. It is not really powerful enough for anything but surface infections, but prob won't hurt.

 

[Donna]

ok, i have some pictures now

these are of Ponyo's suspected Dropsy..... let me know what you think

 

[jsoong]

The pic isn't sharp enough to tell if the scales are sticking out, but it is sure suggestive in the side view. There is certainly a big lump in the right side. I would think this is a big abscess/inflammation under the skin or in the belly. Prob wouldn't call it dropsy just because it is so localized, but chances are it will spread if untreated.

 

[Donna]

sadly having to reduce the picture size reduced the quality, but the scales are definately stuck out (that's what made me suspect dropsy in the first place) okay, will let you know how the treatment goes...... fingers crossed please, i love my little babies, and it'd break my heart to lose one

 

[jsoong]

Keeping my fingers crossed ....

 

[Donna]

oh no! Ponyo's other side is beginning to push out I've been fairly ok about it because he's still swimming about and eating normally, but tonight has been hiding in the hollow log all evening! (ok, so this is the fish who is normally found dozing on the bottom in the corner most of the time! to the point where Ellie stuck a speak bubble sticker above where he sleeps! he's been like that since day 1!!) it could just be that he's found a new dozing area, but it could be his illness too. I'm so upset at the thought he might die (I'm not giving up on him yet!!) I keep praying and can only hope for the best. they say it gets worse before it gets better right?

 

[Donna]

well, i got my water tested again, still fine! so the guy in the shop was fairly bemused as to where my fish coud have gotten ill from. suggested it might be internal bacteria. (also suggested it would be cheaper to buy a new fish! Grrr!) i bought some expensive Internal Anti-Bacteria medication, and hoped fr the best.
His scales are almost flat again, and the swelling is going down!!!!
still not completely better so not going to get complacent, but YAY!!!

 

[jsoong]

The swelling going down is a good sign! And yes, it is likely an internal bacterial infection that is causing the symptoms. Hope your new med will do the trick!