I Have Some Bad News...

[fishdude25]

Thank you.

Wow...50% a week? Really?

I thought we'd be able to get away with a 50% monthly because of these factors:

1. The OVER FILTRATION in this tank: We're running two large HOB's, an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 (good for over 300 GPH) and an AquaClear 110 (good for 500 GPH I believe) so combined that's like over 800 GPH for a goldie tank.

2. PLUS, I run 300ml of Seachem Purigen in the filters (two 100ml packs in the AquaClear, one 100ml pack in the Aqueon), so wouldn't all this be sufficient to get the water changes to stretch a bit?

Yes, we plan to do a fish-in cycle (no choice) to get the Black Moor out of her two gallon holding "tank" and back into the cleaned up 60 gallon...but here's the thing: We did a fish-in cycle with the aggressive Red Cap Oranda we separated after he attacked the goldies in the 60 gallon once we put him in the 10 gallon, using Seachem's Stability for a week. He survived and seems to be doing well, even with two new fish we added yesterday for him. The Stability packaging claims that "aquatic life may be added at any time when using Stability so long as the product is dosed for the complete seven days," so I am comfortable trusting this product...we would like to get the Moor into the 60 gallon and begin cycling with Stability, but we HAVE to get it cleaned, and we're having some issues with that as well as budgetary walls (money for the new substrate, decor, etc.)...

The reason why you need to do water changes once a week is because of nitrates. Over filtration doesn't get rid of nitrates. When the nitrates get too high, the fish can get sick due to lowered immune system.
Do you have a test kit? It is very important. Also, do you have a water changer, or do you use a syphon and bucket?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I know this could be nasty but get some old towels and throw them in there and soak up the nasty water then put clean in to soak.

Good tip...will consider this too...

My wife just picked up a small syphon (for the 10 gallon and 2 gallon gravel cleaning and water changes) and the natural gravel/rock for the 60 gallon (apparently she budgeted for it; I'm home working my freelance job) and I went ahead and did a pre-soak of the two HOB filter housings in the bathtub using SCALDING hot water (the slime that came off these things smelled like bad, stale ocean) just as a precursor to the complete sterilization process to come...

I will keep you all updated on the status of the 60 gallon re-imagining...

BTW -- I am going to need some good ideas for aquascaping designs for this new setup...

 

[fishdude25]

Pool filter sand is a lot cheaper than gravel (so is normal sand, for that matter), I got my sand at home depot, quickrete all purpose sand, 150 lbs for 14$.
Water changes will be SO much easier with a water changer, I can do a water change on my 75 gallon in 40 minutes.
Do you have a water testing kit?

 

[Borderlesscott]

Well, the 10 gallon seems to be somewhat established after using the Stability for the recommended week; the question now is if it will work cycling the 60 gallon if we ever get it up and running...

It worked in my 240 litre, 63 us gallons.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

The reason why you need to do water changes once a week is because of nitrates. Over filtration doesn't get rid of nitrates. When the nitrates get too high, the fish can get sick due to lowered immune system.

Gotcha; understood...

Do you have a test kit? It is very important. Also, do you have a water changer, or do you use a syphon and bucket?

Yes, we have the API Freshwater test kit (liquid) as well as the Jungle strips; when using the API, which we did routinely in the 60 gallon, it never really showed anything being out of whack save for .25 ammonia which we could NEVER get lower in our goldfish community...I could never really read those tests right...

We JUST got a new Top Fin syphon with the syphon "grip button" and performed two water changes -- one on the 10 gallon and one on the Moor's two gallon...pretty easy compared to what we WERE doing with an old Top Fin syphon...

We want to get the Aqueon water changer but just cannot afford it at the moment.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Pool filter sand is a lot cheaper than gravel (so is normal sand, for that matter), I got my sand at home depot, quickrete all purpose sand, 150 lbs for 14$.
Water changes will be SO much easier with a water changer, I can do a water change on my 75 gallon in 40 minutes.
Do you have a water testing kit?

My wife just picked up the natural colored gravel she wanted because it was on sale at Petsmart...

It takes you 40 minutes to do a water change? That doesn't seem like a picnic to me...at any rate, she just brought home a new Top Fin syphon that has the syphon "pump button" on it and that has made the changes much easier on the 10 gallon and 2 gallon (that the Moor is in). We want to get the Aqueon Water Changer, but can't afford it at the moment...

Yes, we have the API test kit (liquid) as well as the Jungle strips.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

It worked in my 240 litre, 63 us gallons.

Did you use it for the week?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

FYI:

THIS is what we used for the 2-gallon plastic tank the Moor is in:

CaribSea Ready-Water - Fish Care - Fish - PetSmart

 

[fishdude25]

FYI:

THIS is what we used for the 2-gallon plastic tank the Moor is in:

CaribSea Ready-Water - Fish Care - Fish - PetSmart

Imo, that is just overpriced preconditioned water. Water doesn't get cycled, the filter does.
P.S. it takes me 40 minutes to do a pwc because of the drainage and refilling time.No heavy lifting, just a little patience.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Imo, that is just overpriced preconditioned water. Water doesn't get cycled, the filter does.
P.S. it takes me 40 minutes to do a pwc because of the drainage and refilling time.No heavy lifting, just a little patience.

Well, the water seems to be working for the Moor -- at any rate, it HAS to be better for her to be breathing that instead of the crap that was in the 60...

I wish we could do the water changes with a water changer hooked up to a faucet instead of carrying buckets, but we would need like 200 feet of extension hosing just to reach the nearest sink...

 

[jlk]

Ughh -- how did that happen? Did you lose fish? I suppose you can understand how I feel then...



That's precisely what we have done with the 60 gallon...we're even starting over with the filter media, from scratch.



So, I assume you lost all fish in that crash?

For whatever reason, the 60 gallon is simply too heavy for us to pick up and carry outside or to a bathtub -- we have to find a way to make this work at the location it's in, on its stand. When you say "wiped everything down with bleach," how did you do this -- just a cloth dipped in a mixture of bleach and water?



Because of the filthy substrate and slime that is coating every surface now?

Here is my theory about what happened, jlk, and your input in terms of analyzing that would be most appreciated -- I think our substrate, which hadn't been vaccumed maybe for two times in the two years we had the tank, got so accumulated with bacteria and raw filth that it was just waiting to attach to a living thing that had an open wound of some kind. When our aggressive Red Cap nipped and attacked the two others, this opened up the wounds, which allowed the bacteria to attach itself and ultimately kill them.

Is this remotely possible?



We were thinking of the colorless "natural" rock/gravel substrate you see in the "natural" tank setups, but the amount for our tank becomes VERY expensive. I have never thought of pool filter sand -- are you sure this would be okay with goldfish and the intake pipes of the HOB filters? I've read horror stories about people's filters getting killed by sand that would be sucked into them...



We realize that and talked about this last night...

How many water changes are necessary, truly, on a goldfish tank? Can we get by with a monthly 50%? And do a gravel vac with every one?



I totally understand -- we just wanted to get a couple of mates for the Red Cap because he looked miserable in there without other fish. Yes, he is seemingly going after these fish too, yet it doesn't seem to be as bad as in our 60 gallon.

We absolutely do not plan on adding any fish to any other tank at any time soon -- if we get the 60 up and running, I just want a place for our Moor to go back to because she's miserable in the two gallon setup...

My situation wasnt a crash but a vile infestation. Some leech bites & missing scales to deal with & no one was the worse for the wear afterwards. Just a royal pain in the behind!

Theres no avoiding big weekly water changes/gravel vacs with goldfish. If you dont, your going to wind up with tank back in the same condition with similar problems. I dont expect you to follow the recommendations of breeders & fanatics, but just keep in mind, they follow big water change schedules to keep their fish happy & healthy- as in 50-100% daily. Heres the link to doing water changes as recommended by goldfish breeders:

http://goldfishkeepers.com/GoldfishTankWaterChanges.php

 

[ArtesiaWells]

My situation wasnt a crash but a vile infestation. Some leech bites & missing scales to deal with & no one was the worse for the wear afterwards. Just a royal pain in the behind!

How did leeches get into your tank?

Did anyone die?

Theres no avoiding big weekly water changes/gravel vacs with goldfish. If you dont, your going to wind up with tank back in the same condition with similar problems. I dont expect you to follow the recommendations of breeders & fanatics, but just keep in mind, they follow big water change schedules to keep their fish happy & healthy- as in 50-100% daily. Heres the link to doing water changes as recommended by goldfish breeders:

http://goldfishkeepers.com/GoldfishTankWaterChanges.php

Well, there is absolutely NO WAY I can do DAILY water changes, let alone at THOSE volumes. I cannot seem to access the link you provided...

 

[jlk]

I actually have 2 lengthy threads on here! If you want to read about it, let me know & Ill send you the links. Not fun. No one died (yet) but one fish wound up becoming gravely ill & spent 3 mths in QT with a blood infection. I have yet to make the decision to euthanize him but I think he is at point now that he may never fully recover....

Sorry about the link- I typed something wrong! Try the one below. Obviously, no one expects you to do water changes on this scale but my point in telling you this is to try & emphasize how important water changes are to fancies & their health. Its much easier to do preventative work than try to treat problems that result from insufficient water changes & cleaning. Your constant ammonia issue was in part contributed from the muck in your tank (plus the constant filter changing).

Site for Goldfish Keepers - How to do water change..

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I actually have 2 lengthy threads on here! If you want to read about it, let me know & Ill send you the links. Not fun. No one died (yet) but one fish wound up becoming gravely ill & spent 3 mths in QT with a blood infection. I have yet to make the decision to euthanize him but I think he is at point now that he may never fully recover....

I am so sorry...

In a nutshell, how did leeches infultrate your bio system?

Sorry about the link- I typed something wrong! Try the one below. Obviously, no one expects you to do water changes on this scale but my point in telling you this is to try & emphasize how important water changes are to fancies & their health. Its much easier to do preventative work than try to treat problems that result from insufficient water changes & cleaning. Your constant ammonia issue was in part contributed from the muck in your tank (plus the constant filter changing).

Site for Goldfish Keepers - How to do water change..

Thanks for the link again...

When you say "the constant filter changing," do you mean when I swapped out the Aqueon's filter cartridges for new ones? That may be so, but there is SO much more filtration that was going on in this tank that there MUST have been more BB growing somewhere else other than on these cartridge pads; can't these cartridges be thrown away once they're REALLY disgusting and brown?

 

[malfist]

When you say "the constant filter changing," do you mean when I swapped out the Aqueon's filter cartridges for new ones? That may be so, but there is SO much more filtration that was going on in this tank that there MUST have been more BB growing somewhere else other than on these cartridge pads; can't these cartridges be thrown away once they're REALLY disgusting and brown?

Are you rinsing the filters during your weekly water changes? If you do that, they don't get so disgusting. You can throw out the filter floss once it gets nasty, but be-careful about replacing the filter media too often, that's where the BB live. Most people recommend "piggy backing" new filters for a day or two before replacing the old ones, that way you avoid a minicycle.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Are you rinsing the filters during your weekly water changes? If you do that, they don't get so disgusting. You can throw out the filter floss once it gets nasty, but be-careful about replacing the filter media too often, that's where the BB live. Most people recommend "piggy backing" new filters for a day or two before replacing the old ones, that way you avoid a minicycle.

Well, prior to this crash that this thread was about, we weren't doing weekly water changes... But what I would do is, after about a month of running the cartridges I would pull them out and discard them, replacing them with new ones. How it works with the Aqueon branded filters is, there are these "biogrid holsters" which hold the cartridges in place, and these are supposed to be the areas where the BB grow...so in theory and according to them, it was okay to throw away gunked up cartridges and replace with new ones...

 

[Jesselav1233]

Hi Jesse!

Thanks for sharing; what happened to your tank? Did everyone die?

I wish I knew I was not the only one who has experienced this tragedy; I can't believe we have to start over again...

Do you think the scalding hot water would kill whatever is in the filters?

Hey I had 8 discus that were doing great and my girlfriend loves angel fish so when I found a coy angel fish I bought 2 of them. They both were sick ( as well as the rest of the tank at the lfs I bought them from unfortunately they weren't showing any signs when I bought them) they contaminated my entire tank and all 8 discus died ($280) I also lost all my live plants ($100) as well as having to bleach and clean my entire tank then start buying expensive discus and plants again. Sigh :/ ... Any how lesson learned use a QT TANK FROM NOW ON at least for me from now on. To answer your question yes I think if u let your filter dry out for a day or two and run really hot water through it it will kill whatever is in your tank (it did in my tank) I would definitely use bleach on the tank diluted in water then rinse very well just add little extra water conditioner when u start ur tank up again and it will be good to go if u can't move it just empty it clean it fill it with water and drain it and fill it a few times will e tedious but u got to do what u got a do right hope this helps u out I feel ur pain

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Thank you, Jesse...

I am so sorry for your loss, too...

 

[ArtesiaWells]

UPDATE TO TANK RE-ESTABLISHMENT:

Hi, everyone.

Okay -- I had some down time today after finishing a work assignment (I am a freelance writer) and finished scooping out the remaining gravel from the old setup, draining the little bit of water left and then proceeded to hose down the entire tank with a lot of 409 anti-bacterial solution, wiping in all the crevices and nooks, and then poured some scalding hot water in the tank to rinse, drained that, then splashed hydrogen peroxide all over the inside glass walls, wiped that around with some paper towels, then added scalding hot water again (via bucket trips from the bathroom) and as of right now, the tank is sitting there with about 1/8 of hot water just kind of mixing with whatever peroxide was left; when my wife gets home we're going to grab some dinner and when we return, I will probably continue with the cleaning task...

Oh -- I also sprayed a LOT of 409 all over both HOB filter housings which are still sitting in the bathtub, rinsed those with hot water, and will dunk them in a vinegar solution too later...I hope this at least kills the bacteria on the filters...

So, what is next, in my mind, is this: Adding more burning hot water to the tank to swish some more of the peroxide off, then draining it, then perhaps doing the OUTSIDE glass of the tank with 409, then perhaps Windex treatments, until finally being able to dry it all and start washing down the new gravel with scalding hot water before adding it to the bottom of the tank and then begin adding new fresh cold water that will eventually be the beginning of the new water treatment (Prime, Stability) and finally getting the filters up and running with some new media...

At this point, can anyone confirm for me if this is a good enough route to disinfecting this aquarium? To recap, what I did was:

1. Sprayed the whole inside with a LOT of 409 antibacterial chemical
2. Wiped that good in every crevice with paper towel
3. Filled up a bucket with scalding hot water and poured it into the tank to swish around some of the 409
4. Syphoned out that water
5. Added some more hot water and syphoned that out
6. Splashed peroxide all over the inner glass and used paper towels to wipe it around all over the crevices and corners
7. Poured more buckets of scalding hot water into the tank to kind of swish and rinse some of the peroxide off
8. Let some hot water sit in the tank now

That's where I'm up to right now and all I could do for the moment -- does this sound like it should kill at least some of the bacteria from this tank?

Also -- I noticed, due to the "algae magnet" cleaning thing we used a couple of times to get diatoms off the glass, that the inner parts of the tank in certain places have pretty nasty scratches...is this normal? Is this something worth getting a new tank over, or are glass scratches just going to happen?

Thank you, everyone!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Going to continue pumping out the remaining water in the 60 gallon and proceed with washing down the outside glass today; still need to find something to clean the filter housings with to get the lime deposits off of them, plus get new media for the AquaClear 110, new bubble wands from Petco and some new airline tubing for the wands, in addition to a new glass top for the tank and some other tidbits...