sick fish -- unable to keep upright.

[coolchinchilla]

I'm a newbie here. I posted this in the Getting Started but it really belongs here, so I moved it.

Ok... I have a very sick fish and I hope someone can help me with him. I got the tank dirt cheap a month ago and inherited the fish with it. I know it is probably overstocked 8O and I'll work on that soon. I'm hoping to focus here on my sick guy.

Tank:
*30gal tall
*10 cichlids (lake malawi Mbuna) adult size ~4" & one pleco
*UGF w/powerhead + HOB power filter
*water parameters Ammonia =0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrates=20, pH=8.4+, alkalinity=~75
*tank has been running for one month - cycled in that time.

Fish symptoms:
*blue cichlid (don't know species, sorry)
*yesterday very pale & listing to the side and aft down. He couldn't even run and hide from my net like the other fish did. Poor guy. I feel so bad for him.
*Moved him to a hospital bucket (no tank) w/ aquarium water, air driven sponge filter, heater, thermometer & rocks to hide under.
*Put in melafix & aquarium salt, stress coat & some fresh water.
*Today he is totally upside-down - belly up. He can crudely move by using his side fins. He keeps himself about 2-3 inches below the surface. He can't get himself to the rocks to hide under.
*Put in some frozen brine shrimp and I'm almost sure he tried to eat some.

Any suggestions? Any links about sick fish?

Thanks in advance
coolchinchilla

 

[krap101]

awhile ago when i first started this same thing happened to 2 of my gouramis. one started to float, then went totally upside down. 20 mins later it died. 2 hours later the 2nd died..

i think theres like 3 possibilities popeye swim bladder disease and ammonia. ammonias at 0, probally the eyes arent popping out.. so it might be swim bladder.

also i think constipation might do this, but i dont remember clearly

 

[talloulou]

http://www.exotictropicals.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm#Swim-bladder Disease

It is very hard to bring a fish back once it has reached this point. Sorry. Maybe the web site will help you diagnose the fish better.

 

[coolchinchilla]

i think theres like 3 possibilities popeye swim bladder disease and ammonia. ammonias at 0, probally the eyes arent popping out.. so it might be swim bladder.y

Yeah, I think you're right. It's probably swim bladder problems. Poor guy.
coolchinchilla

 

[coolchinchilla]

fish update -- good news!


When I looked at my sick fish today he was upright!!! He was also under a rock at the bottom of the hospital bucket! Yahooooooo!

He still looks dreadful as far as his "complexion" goes - pale, red blotches on his sides that looks like physical injury, 8O but we've made an improvement!

I bought an antibiotic at the LFS. The fish store guy said I should disolve the tablet in a few cups of distilled water and then slowly siphon it into the hospital bucket. So that's what I did. I hope he makes it.

Thanks for your help everyone!
coolchinchilla

 

[Zagz]

Good news. Keep us posted on how it makes out.

 

[coolchinchilla]

I checked out my sick fish this afternoon and he is still getting better!

He doesn't have any dark blotches on his sides for injury now. He is still pale but even that looks a little better. He is upright still. He is still a little stiff and clumsy at swimming. He hangs at the bottom of the hospital bucket under a rock So slowly but surely... he's coming along.

coolchinchilla

 

[Menagerie]

You need to figure out the exact species of Mbuna you have. I'm not 100% sure what is wrong with your fish, but stress from the other fish may be contributing and now that he is in QT, he is getting better. If you can post pics of all the cichlids, that would be great, or go to http://www.mongabay.com/fish/cichlids.htm and look at descriptions.
What are you feeding them?
I know you are aware that your tank is overstocked, but you need to do something soon. Having done a 29 gal Mbuna tank, I will tell you that when things go wrong, they go downhill in a hurry. My guys were upgraded to an 80 gal and things are well.

 

[coolchinchilla]

sure what is wrong with your fish, but stress from the other fish may be contributing and now that he is in QT, he is getting better. If you can post pics of all the cichlids, that would be great, or go to http://www.mongabay.com/fish/cichlids.htm and look at descriptions.
What are you feeding them?

Ain't got no camera so I can't post pics. However I will look at the website to figure my blue guy out.

I know you are aware that your tank is overstocked, but you need to do something soon.

<sigh> :| I wish it were easier. I'd rather have a tank with all yellow labs. I can put my "excess" cichlids in my empty 20 gal. Is it cruel to give 'em to the LFS? But I'd like to do my 20 gal with a bunch of schooling fish.

How many fish should I have in a 30 gal?

Rockwork: After reading more about cichlids I realize that my tank is much too barren for them. 8O I need to give 'em more rocks and hiding places. Clay pots are an easy thing to obtain. How should I put new rockwork in? Not so good to stress them further by messingup their home again.

Thanks for the advice!
coolchinchilla

 

[coolchinchilla]

Fish species & Fish feeding

Fish species
Ok. I've studied pics to find what kind of sick fish I have. The best guess I have is electric blue.

Here are some links to pictures that look like my fish -- though he's never been the vibrant blue that these fish are: http://tinyurl.com/9zbbr http://tinyurl.com/77oqc

Feeding:
I'm a bit haphazard about feeding. Is it really important to feed the fish haphazardly? I inherited varies foods from the previous owner:
*bag of standard flakes kind of like Tetramin.
*several ounces of spirina (sp?)
*frozen brine shrimp.
*sinking cichlid pellets from Tetra.

I don't feed them on a schedule. 8O I just put in food when I remember. If I'm showing off the tank I'll put more food in. I haven't set up the timer on the aquarium light so the hours of daylights varies like 5 hours (poor fish)

Thanks for your help.
coolchinchilla ]

 

[Menagerie]

I'm not a big fan of clay pots, unless they are bought from a LFS for the purpose of using in a tank. Many people have had no problems with clay pots, but I have had two horrible experiences with two clay pots. You can check out the rock work in my Mbuna tank in my gallery.
Since these are "excess" cichlids in your mind and the feeding schedule is random, the best for you and these fish is to find them new homes. If you trust your LFS, then the fish can go there.

How many fish should I have in a 30 gal?

That's hard to answer since it depends on fish personality.

 

[coolchinchilla]

Since these are "excess" cichlids in your mind

I didn't mean to say they weren't valuable fish and deserve to live in the best conditions possible so that they can thrive. But that does seem to be what I said. 8O <sigh> Poor fish. I better go upstairs right now and tell them I'm sorry.

and the feeding schedule is random,

Many things in my life operates on a random schedule (eating, sleeping, activities). That's not so great for me and not good at all for my fish. I'll work on doing better.

the best for you and these fish is to find them new homes. If you trust your LFS, then the fish can go there.

Yeah. Maybe you're right. Thanks for your insight.

coolchinchilla

 

[Menagerie]

Sorry, my post was written in hast. To me, keeping only fish you love is worth it. These other cichlids are not your favs and that's fine (it's not as though you wanted to toss them to your cat ). Better to recognize that these fish can have a different home, than months from now, when you need to quickly upgrade the tank size or fish are in QT for various reasons. If I lived nearby, I would take them off your hands in a heartbeak and I am sure that someone in your area will give them a wonderful home.

The feeding schedule can be an easy fix. Go with every other day. Write in on your calendar, or make a little calendar for the tank. Sometimes I get bored feeding my fish and I want to make it more exciting for both the fish and myself. Check out the article I wrote on feeding fruits and veggies to your fish

BTW~have you even seen a degu and compared it to your chinchilla? Pics of my degus are in my gallery.

 

[coolchinchilla]

sick cichlid doing better!

My sick blue fish is doing better. I gave him 5 days of antibiotics. The wounds (?) on his sides are gone. When I netted him he tried to get away and vigorously squirmed in the net. He's gaining his swimming capacity and he's got some spunk back in him.

He still looks dreadfully pale. :? Instead of blue, he looks a very pale gray. The other day I put him in a salt bath for 5-6 minutes and then put him in the hospital bucket filled with new aquarium water plus some fresh water. He stays under the rock. He doesn't come out for anything. I try to feed him but I can't tell if he eats. I put some rocks with algae in the bucket for him to nibble on.

He's a plucky guy. Hope he keeps getting better. I figure I'll let him stay in the hospital bucket with no more treatments (other than water changes) for a few days. Then I'll decide what to do next. Should I add a little salt to the water?

Thanks people for your advice.
coolchinchilla

 

[Menagerie]

I wouldn't add salt to the water. Allow it to continue recovering and to see if it is eating, offer some tasty frozen foods, such as blood worms or mystis shrimp.

 

[greenmaji]

If you check out the site that Meagerie posted earlier it will give you the tank sizes needed for each spieces of these fish to properly house them most of the fish your talking about need at least a 36" long tank.. some of them need bigger tanks.. it does depend on the spieces so try your best too look for them.. and looking for a new home if your really not intrested in keeping these fish is a good thing to do.. Im deffinatley not local.. and Im afraid my bigger tanks are spoken for...LOL but there is alot of intrest in the colorfull cichlids you have.. and if you can get them back to good health I realy dont see a problem with getting them back to a LFS.. they sell well here..
http://www.mongabay.com has alot of great information!
If I were you I would keep the fish in QT untill it fully recovered.. ie got its color back if possible..

 

[coolchinchilla]

fish jumped out!

I looked at my sick blue fish today. I took out the rock in the hospital bucket so I could see him. I must have scared him to pieces because he zoomed around the bucket, lept 2 feet in the air and landed on the floor. 8O Startled me. I put him back in the bucket and put the rock back in. Then he jumped 2 feet straight up and landed back in the bucket. :? I've never seen a fish jump like that.

I have some frozen brine shrimp. I put a little in after he landed on the floor. He didn't touch it but that could be because of so much trauma. I put some fresh stones that had a lot of algae on it near his hiding place. He does seem to eat the algae -- or at least the algae is gone within two days. I took out some water, put some aquarium water and fresh water in his bucket along with a little stress coat and stress zyme. I put 2-3 cichlid pellets in for him as well. I covered the bucket this time.

Thanks for the help!
coolchinchilla

 

[Menagerie]

Those fish can jump, as you are now aware of

 

[coolchinchilla]

My blue fellow is still going along. He is still pale, but ok. I'm keeping him in the hospital bucket still. I think now that he is a blue ahli. All the blue fish seem to all look the same to me in pics. It seems that cichlids all have 3 or more different common names and 3 or more different scientific names including legacy names. <sigh>

I bought some tera cotta flower pots to add to the rock work of my tank. I took out all the rocks I had in there, then did a thorough gravel vac. Then I had fun building the rock work up. Of course the fish liked to hang out amongst the rocks. Before the rocks only extended up about a third of the tank both wide and high, so that's about the extent of their living space. Today I put in rock work so it filled two thirds of the tank high and two thirds of the tank wide. So effectively I've increased their functional living space by 4 times. : (I think I did the math right.)

So far I don't see any aggression problems. I hope this helps with any problems that I can't see. Poor guys.

coolchinchilla

 

[coolchinchilla]

Oh... menagerie... About degus & chinchillas. Degus are cool critters. They remind me of large gerbils. They can run for miles. Chinchillas are really really fluffy and softer than you can imagine. They remind me more of squirels.

coolchinchilla