29g tank with a few fish, seeking advice

[Blinkin11]

Ok so I have had everything set up for about 2 weeks now with the basic set up plan from this website. (i have another post on lighting that has had some helpful replies) but now I am looking at th stocking.

With additives and some plants already in the tank for roughly 3 days the LFS said I could stock the tank with about 6-7 smaller hardy fish to help move the cycle along. They suggested whiteclouds and mollys. On this one sales guys advice I went with 4 mollys and 6 whiteclouds. Already thinking this is going to be bio overload. I wish I would have listened to myself. I have 5 whiteclouds living, not looking sickly full color and swimming around being active. Unfortunately a molly pair died and a day after a whitecloud died. I am almost positive this is from overstocking to fast and ammonia killing the fish. I feel horrible for this happening and want to make steps in the future to help keep my remaining fish alive.

I am doing 10% PWL each day as well as adding a bio additive they suggested to help jump start the tank.

I know there are hundreds of posts on the same thing, I just couldnt find one in the last few days pertaining to my problem.

If anyone can help let me know!!

thanks in advance

Justin

 

[Menagerie]

Welcome to AA, Blinkin11!

How big is this tank?

With additives and some plants already in the tank for roughly 3 days the LFS said I could stock the tank with about 6-7 smaller hardy fish to help move the cycle along.

What additives? There is an article in the articles section that describes cycling your tank without the use of fish.

Okay, the above was written without reading your whole post. You have a few options. 1 Take back the fish and tell the sales guy where he can put them and cycle the tank fishless. 2 Find a friend/neighbor with an established tank that is free of disease and ask to borrow some established media to put in your filter for a couple of weeks. 3 Increase the PWC and get a Master Test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate IMMEDIATELY (you need one anyway). Keep the ammonia below .5, then keep the nitrite below .5 and watch your tank S L O W L Y cycle.
You are not the first one, or the last one to have this happen to them, with patience, PWC or taking back the fish (if the store will let you) this tank can be turned around.

bio additive

Which one? The only one proven to help is Bio Spira, and the availability may be scarce.

 

[TwoHobbies]

Welcome aboard

Looks like you're going to be doing some PWC, and 10% is not enough. I would do at least 30% to 50% PWC, and don't forget to add something like prime when you do.

 

[Blinkin11]

Microbe Lift Special Blend is the additive they told me could help when I got the tank. As for taking them back, when I told them some have died they said they cant risk taking some back. So they kinda screwed me there it seems. I guess I will stick to the PWL and I am getting my kit tonight, so hopefully Ill be able to give a reading tomorrow. Ill see if anyone at work has some established media I could use for my tank to help. Is this still ok even with the fish in there?

so it looks to me like options 2 and 3 together could help me keep this going, and hopefully not harm the fish anymore.

Thanks for the fast response, I know you hear this stuff all the time.

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA!

It appears your lfs has given you some conflicting advice. They sold you fish to help with the cycle and then when they died they won't take them back. Yes definately use some established media if possible, if getting it from someone at work, make sure it stays wet! Do 50% water changes each day until you have your test kit and numbers. Don't worry about the microbe lift special blend additive. If the additive doesn't have to be refrigerated then the bacteria isn't live.

 

[TomK2]

Welcome to AA! My thoughts on cycling with fish are at:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

Way to wordy to copy here. Check it out if you are inclined. But for your current situation, definitely get the test kit. Definitely do more volume with the water changes. A python really helps with wate changes in all but the smallest tanks. Yours is a very familiar story, often repeated here on AA.

 

[DepotFish]

Mollies aren't what I consider a small fish. They get big. If you don't plan to include them in your final stocking you should probably try to find someone to take them.

 

[Blinkin11]

well my tests came out like this....

ammonia is at .5
nitrites are at .25
nitrates are at 10


it seems like things are starting to develop, but still a high amount of ammonia


Any ideas? i am going to start doing more water changes, i did buy a python, going to use it tonight.

 

[TomK2]

Just keep those levels low. Water changes are key. Now that you have a test kit, you can test your tap water for ammonia and nitrates. If you have chloramines, the ammonia test is typically positive between 0.5 and 1.5 ppm. Test for nitrates, some water supplies have it, and you need to see the nitrates rise over your tap water level as a secondary confirmation of the cycles end. For tap water pH testing, you need to let the water sit out overnight to let CO2 equilibrate, the tap pH can change overnight with CO2 changes, and that can explain a lot if your tank pH is different than your tap pH right out of the faucet.

O.5 of ammonia is high, but not that bad for a fishy cycle. It is hard to keep it lower, since that really takes a bunch of frequent water changes. And if you have chloramines, you can't water change your way below what the tap water ammonia test is.

 

[Blinkin11]

ok i checked my tap water for ammonia it showed 0 so i think i am ok there, nitrares ill test tomorrow. I did a 25% water change tonight and put GENESIS in with it. Thanks everyone for their help!

once i get this thing up and running, and some plants in here ill take some pics and show it off.

 

[Blinkin11]

Ok well it seems this was doomed, the fish ar just getting sick.
I have upped to 40% water changes every day this week, but they are slowly dieing.
I checked my levels and the ammonia looks to be between .25 and .5 on the chart, nitrites still at .25 and nitrates at 10.

What I am affraid of happening is i lose all but 1 or 2 of my fish then I dont get enough ammonia to continue the cycle.

Can anyone offer advice? i know that if I lose all the fish despite my efforts I will be buying ammonia and going fishless the rest of the way till it is done.

 

[TomK2]

Well, if you do suffer a fish loss, the remaining fish will still provide ammonia for the cycle. You can get the bacteria to grow with undetectable levels ( less than 0.25 pm) it just takes a little bit longer. So, don't add any more fish if you have losses. Let the survivors get the job done with lower amounts of ammonia. Or take all the fish back and go fishless. If you have a total loss, I find zebra danios and Platies to be very hardy. But if you don't want them later, its not very nice to make them do cycle duty then discard them. If I lost all my fish I would rally consider fishless.

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

 

[Blinkin11]

Well I have 3 fish left....2 femle mollies and a yellow whitecloud.

They are swimming around with each other, and look in general good shape. I am keeping up with my 30-40% PWC daily to help these little ones out.

If i were to lose them all I would not re-stock it and do that to another set of fish. I would just go fishless from that point on.

 

[Blinkin11]

Update on my tank and levels

after testing last night it seems my ammonia is .25, nitrites are <.25 and nitrates are at 10 i tested my tank PH and it is at 7.6 I have read a decent bit about PH and I dont want to chemically alter it So is this a good region to be?

I have now seeded my filter and put some media in the tank inside of an old thin sock.

Bad news is I have 2 mollies and there is a baby molly left. I am doing changes daily, at 20% now. I want these fish to live, hopefully they can make it through this period.

 

[rich311k]

That PH is fine. Mollys actually should really like it. Keep your levels under .5 and all should be ok. Good Luck.

 

[SCFatz]

7.6 is fine...its stabilty that you want ( not a specific number exactly) so keep testing it when you test for the rest and note any changes.

Now as far as cycling with fish...well...I know a bunch.Learned it in a hurry and I learned it here...lol.

My 29g is doing great now but it is tough.What concerns me is you numbers aren't that bad considering.Not nearly as bad as mine got at times,4ppm ammonia..3ppm nitrites ect...But you seem to be losing alot of fish.

I had to really keep after my tank as some tests in the AM would look much worse in the PM and off I'd go with the pwcs sleepy or not,but like you I had quite a few at the time and I was heated up over the ich so I had to watch ultra close.

Mine were always large if the toxins were up....70 to 80 %...this will slow the cycle down..but help the fish.With the small population you have now its probably not needed to do such a large change...but it up to the result more the anything.

I tried to keep the levels at 1 (the highest) or below of both AM and NI.Once I got a handle on that this fish stopped checking out or at least not as quickly.Fwiw I still have three neons out of four who survived the effort from start to finish.

But...looking at your results..I'm lost.Those are not fish killing levels imo.

How do you moniter the temp of the new water going in?

Any signs of illness that you can tell?

The new seeded material is from an estabished tank I assume?

What is the overall temp in the tank?

 

[Blinkin11]

I monitor the water with a thermometer at the source when i am using the python to put water back into my tank, my tank is a little over 80F and i try to match the tap up to it as best as I can.

The seeded is from an establish tank, one going for about a year, a friend was about to change her filter so she gave me the filter. I dont see any signs of illness on the mollies left in there, and the baby that is swimming around is active as well. I think it was the inital shock and ammonia spike that got all my yellow whiteclouds.


They were looking sick right after I got my first test and really started to start the PWC, So I think it was just to much for them at first. I wish I would have found this site a week earlier. As all the research I did and the LFS were both indifferent about the cycle. So I just chose a fish cycle since the research on both seemed to take about the same amount of time. Once I got here I learned different!

anyway the mollies in there rightnow are eating well, swimming around a lot and show no spots or signs of stress/sickness on their bodies.

I was almost thinking about getting some more plants to finish my tank plant wise, would this help out at all?

It also concerned me that I had ammonia and nitrates but not really any NitrItes.

 

[rich311k]

With the numbers you just posted I think things are moving along nicely. Just keep testing and changing water as needed. Another month or so and this will allbe a distant memory. You have a low bioload so when you are done you will need to add fish slowly.

 

[GodOSoot]

Honestly your cycle is not directly killing the fish, higher numbers then that are needed for immediate death. They may just be sending them along because they were half way there at the fish store which is why they won't take them back. The fish will just die in thier tanks anyway.

You are moving along nicely though.