5 Orandas turning black!!!

[cecejay]

Merry Christmas,

Sad news. I can't think of much more to try. Do they just decline?

I really do feel so helpless... Thanks for your support though... I guess no one else on the forum really have any more clues as well. The partial good news is that the black patches seem to be going away... but I've lost 3 fishes (another one this morning) and it's quite shocking as those were really healthy fishes... so yes, the black just declines...

 

[Alan79]

I have read this thread though but not in onesitting so sorry if you have answered this. Have you tried doing a complete wash out of the gravel bed. The water changes should have helped but if something is stuck in your gravel it may be the issue. I'd also think about removing all your stones and driftwood for the time being. They may not be an issue but something in either may have just started leaching even after a couple of years in the tank. Sorry to hear about your fish passing on. I hope yousort this issue out soon.

Do you use activated carbon at all? I read that after three weeks in a filter it begins to break down and releases toxins worse than ammonia nitrate and nitrite.

 

[cecejay]

I have read this thread though but not in onesitting so sorry if you have answered this. Have you tried doing a complete wash out of the gravel bed. The water changes should have helped but if something is stuck in your gravel it may be the issue. I'd also think about removing all your stones and driftwood for the time being. They may not be an issue but something in either may have just started leaching even after a couple of years in the tank. Sorry to hear about your fish passing on. I hope yousort this issue out soon.

Do you use activated carbon at all? I read that after three weeks in a filter it begins to break down and releases toxins worse than ammonia nitrate and nitrite.

Hi There, Thanks for replying.
I have removed the gravel and done a thorough wash, with aquarium water so as to not lose the good bacteria.
I have removed all the ornaments, except one as the fishes do like to sleep in them. We stopped activated carbon as we used Ich cure once, 1 year ago and we removed it as it would neutralise the medication.

By the way, do you really think that something could affect the fishes even after 2 years?

 

[cecejay]

Also, we have reduced their food to once a day.... and we're still doing water changes, however I've done only a 25% change today as the ammonia and nitrite levels seem to be stabilising.

 

[Delapool]

Do you use activated carbon at all? I read that after three weeks in a filter it begins to break down and releases toxins worse than ammonia nitrate and nitrite.

Hi, open minded here but I'm not aware that carbon will break down in a filter? I have read that it can discharge but the ph needs to be very high or very low to do so. Mainly that it loses effectiveness after 2-4 weeks. Interested in anything you may have. I quickly found the link below on this, not the best one I have but similar info.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/filtermedia/a/Activated-Carbon-In-The-Aquarium.htm

 

[Alan79]

Hi, open minded here but I'm not aware that carbon will break down in a filter? I have read that it can discharge but the ph needs to be very high or very low to do so. Mainly that it loses effectiveness after 2-4 weeks. Interested in anything you may have. I quickly found the link below on this, not the best one I have but similar info.

Activated Carbon in the Aquarium

I have no idea about where i read it now but further reading seems to show that discharging carbon is unlikely as it occurs at PH 4- or 10+. Thanks Delapool i had sworn off using carbon based on my assumption that carbon began to discharge in the aquarium. I'll go back through my browser history and see if i can find where i got the idea originally. I tend to go off on tangents when researching things aquarium and retain many half facts like this.

 

[Delapool]

Same here! Many thanks for the reply and info, I'd be interested in anything you find. My son just blames aliens for anything in the tank now...mind you it would explain a lot.

 

[Alan79]

Same here! Many thanks for the reply and info, I'd be interested in anything you find. My son just blames aliens for anything in the tank now...mind you it would explain a lot.

If i come accross the link i read again i will PM you with it. I think i would have done my reading on carbon when i bought a filter last week so i'll search the browser history from then. I found this article linking dusty carbon exposure and HLLE but seems like saltwater species are suffering from it.

Activated Carbon: HLLE Smoking Gun Found | Coral Magazine

If your son bumps into ET can you let him know my Algae is ready to phone home. As far as researching why this problem had persisted i even started looking into nicotine poisoning. I think i'll blame aliens too.

Ok been doing more reading based on googling symptoms.
Diseases Of Goldfish And Recommended Cure
Melanophore migration.
Melanophore Migration: Melanophore Migration is characterized by black spots forming on the otherwise healthy goldfish. The melanophore is a pigment containing cell that can control how dark or light the skin pigment will be. It is because of melanophore cells that an animal can change its skin color to camouflage itself. This condition can come about when the goldfish is experiencing stress due to poor water quality, or it can be a secondary infection inflicted by parasite infestation. A simple water change can be the solution to curing this ailment. Once the aquarium water is clean you will have to wait awhile for the black spots to disappear.

or
Freshwater Disease Charts
Myxobacteriosis
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Symptoms: Symptoms may include black patches on the body and fins. The body may become bloated or swollen in some areas.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Treatment: As far as I know, there is only one medication designed specifically for myxobacteriosis--Phenocide by Aquatronics.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Information: This infection is rather uncommon but fairly easy to treat. Its probability is intensified by overcrowding and poor water quality with high levels of ammonia and / or nitrites.[/FONT]

I guess that since the blackness has started to go away it may have been Melanophore migration due to something stressing them out. Maybe the water PH rising suddenly contributed when other factors were already stressing them. Melanophore migration can also show up in conjunction with a parasite infection. Did you mentioned that your goldfish weren't pooping normally at some stage? If so you could possibly have a growing infestation of worms in your fish. Does it ever look like they have white strings trailing instead of poop? I would probably think that not all goldfish would show the same signs when stressed so it may lean towards Myxobacteriosis because they all did show the symptoms.

I couldn't say if ether of these issues are what has been giving you a sick tank but the symptoms for both match and might be something to go on.

 

[jlk]

Freshwater Disease Charts
Myxobacteriosis
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Symptoms: Symptoms may include black patches on the body and fins. The body may become bloated or swollen in some areas.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Treatment: As far as I know, there is only one medication designed specifically for myxobacteriosis--Phenocide by Aquatronics.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Information: This infection is rather uncommon but fairly easy to treat. Its probability is intensified by overcrowding and poor water quality with high levels of ammonia and / or nitrites.[/FONT]

I guess that since the blackness has started to go away it may have been Melanophore migration due to something stressing them out. Maybe the water PH rising suddenly contributed when other factors were already stressing them. Melanophore migration can also show up in conjunction with a parasite infection. Did you mentioned that your goldfish weren't pooping normally at some stage? If so you could possibly have a growing infestation of worms in your fish. Does it ever look like they have white strings trailing instead of poop? I would probably think that not all goldfish would show the same signs when stressed so it may lean towards Myxobacteriosis because they all did show the symptoms.

I couldn't say if ether of these issues are what has been giving you a sick tank but the symptoms for both match and might be something to go on.

This information is quite dated. Aquatronics went out of business quite long time ago. Myxobacteria is just a general name for any type of gram negative bacteria that glide and are capable of producing fruiting bodies. Its a huge group and most of the bacteria included are not pathogenic. It does though include common fish disease agents such as flavobacterium (columnaris) and various other cytophaga.

Melanin migration (black patches) just indicates injury of some sort typically caused by a chemical such as high ammonia which I mentioned earlier in this thread. When a fish is very ill, melanophores and other chromophores will actually migrate away from the skin in goldfish.

I still believe something in the water itself changed or something that accidently got into the tank is behind everyone's symptoms rather than a parasitic or bacterial agent as everyone was equally affected at once rather than a single fish. Nor was there any means for a parasite to enter the system as the tank has been running for a long time with the same fish. Bacterial diseases do not typically affect healthy, well maintained tanks.

Its possible that now that they have been severely stressed and their immune systems are weakened, they are now subject to bacterial issues (red sores and patches that you mentioned). The black patches fading indicates that they are healing externally but they may not be out of the woods yet so please keep a close watch on everyone. I am very sorry that you lost some of your guys

 

[cecejay]

Hi, open minded here but I'm not aware that carbon will break down in a filter? I have read that it can discharge but the ph needs to be very high or very low to do so. Mainly that it loses effectiveness after 2-4 weeks. Interested in anything you may have. I quickly found the link below on this, not the best one I have but similar info.

Activated Carbon in the Aquarium

I have no idea about where i read it now but further reading seems to show that discharging carbon is unlikely as it occurs at PH 4- or 10+. Thanks Delapool i had sworn off using carbon based on my assumption that carbon began to discharge in the aquarium. I'll go back through my browser history and see if i can find where i got the idea originally. I tend to go off on tangents when researching things aquarium and retain many half facts like this.

Thanks guys, but I have heard about carbon discharge as well, and we anyway never really needed it...but yeah, I completely agree Alan79, sometimes the most obvious thing would be what we missed right under our noses....and any opinion/ideas or anything now i really appreciated...as the answer might be there somewhere.

My fishes are doing ok now...the couple left... so it makes sense now that the ammonia and nitrite levels are zero...

 

[Roz]

I am really sorry to hear about some of your fishies passing away :-(

I hope the remaining two little guys are on the mend and doing better.

Wish we could have identified the issue for you.

 

[cecejay]

I am really sorry to hear about some of your fishies passing away :-(

I hope the remaining two little guys are on the mend and doing better.

Wish we could have identified the issue for you.

Thanks Roz... I know everyone really tried hard...but I guess these things do happen... the other two guys are quite happy... but I'm quite worried about getting any more new fish although the tank looks silly with 2 fishes only

 

[Roz]

How are the little guys now? Starting to recover?

 

[cecejay]

How are the little guys now? Starting to recover?

Awww... thanks for asking The one remaining fish is recovering He's lost most of the black on his body and gills and face.

The ammonia, pH, Nitrites/nitrates are perfect now, but it was a real tragedy. It probably would have made sense if I knew the cause, but just another aquarium mystery

 

[cecejay]

I really do wish that no one gets this in their tanks....it drives you nuts when you're not aware of what's the cause...

 

[cecejay]

...but I would like to thank everyone for their time and effort in trying to help resolve this issue... everyone's opinions, thoughts, ideas mattered..and is greatly appreciated!!!