75G FOWLR issues!

[indigobluetc]

I have a 75 gal FOWLR tank here is the specs:
75 gal tank
70 lbs rock
black live sand
sump filter
2 power heads
Protein skimmer in sump

Fish:
Lion fish around 6" or so big
2 damsels
green spot puffer
choc chip star

Ok so here is my issue and I need some advice. I want to get rid of the black sand and use crushed white coral. I think it will look better and make the tank brighter so all in all a better looking tank. Well I want to know if I take everything out of the tank and get rid of the sand and put the coral in how safe is that? Will it cause the tank to cycle? Will I be ok doing this? Will the fish be ok? I am also thinking of doing a partial water change as well. Any advice on this would be great and help me a lot! Also I have an under ground filter in the tank that I do not use at the moment. Now once I put the coral in could I hook my power heads up to it? Good idea or no? Thanks for any and all help in advance!

 

[ccCapt]

1st question is how deep is your sand bed now?
If you have a shallow sand bed (1"-3"), you can siphon out about 1/4 of it at a time and replace it with SAND. I do not recommend using crushed coral. If you have a deep sand bed (4"+), I would be leary of disturbing it...unless you drained your tank 1st.
I would not use the undergravel at all.

 

[cmor1701d]

I agree with cccapt. No on the ujndergrouond filter (remove it fromthe tank). Yes to a sand bed as opposed to CC, especially with a messy eater in the tank.

How long has this tank been set up?
Are you running any other filtration (wet/dry or cannister)?

 

[indigobluetc]

The sand bed is about 2" thick. The tank has been up for about a year or so.. I have another tank with CC and I like the way it looks so thats why I decided I wanted that instead of sand.. Why do you suggest sand over CC?

 

[cmor1701d]

CC traps detritus and must be vacuumed regularly and even that might not get it all out. A sand bed doesn't trap it and plays host to a variety or ogranisms that help to break it down. Also sand offers a greater surface area for nitrifying bacteria to colonize.

 

[dropin]

sounds like you will have to take the tank down, get yourself 3 large rubbermaid containers and put the water, rock and fish, some in each and then take the sand out and get rid of it. cc traps alot of crap from the fish and any uneaten food, there are lots of different substrates out there, pick one you like. as for the overgravel filter, ditch it. with only 4 fish , i doubt you will go through much of a cyle.

 

[indigobluetc]

Ok well thanks for the help I think I will stay away form the CC but go with white sand. Right now its black and I just like the way the white looks better. I also just kind of fell in to a 135 gal tank so I might be spending the money on that for now to get it going..

 

[melosu58]

Congrats on the 135. I agree with the others that sand is the way to go. CC will be alot of added work on you. Good luck.

 

[roka64]

Why not mix up the sand? I have a little blue sand in my 125 along with the white sand...

 

[thekeyofb]

CC traps detritus and must be vacuumed regularly and even that might not get it all out. A sand bed doesn't trap it and plays host to a variety or ogranisms that help to break it down. Also sand offers a greater surface area for nitrifying bacteria to colonize.

not to add to your worry, but CC does not buffer your system as well as live sand. CC has been known to breakdown the buffering and cause problems. I would suggest live sand, but if you really want to have CC then I would go with CC that contains aragonite....

 

[Innovator]

I agree with the rest and if it were me just wait until you set up the 135g. As for your stocking list, I see a very lonesome liofish once it consumes its smaller tankmates Oh, and aragonite does not buffer anything us aquarists would consider useful and used primarily for the composition, not that I wouldn't switch to it anyways.

 

[thekeyofb]

I didn't say that aragonite buffers anything. It does however maintain your buffered pH levels where crush coral does not. So go with the aragonite sand. Trust me. I'm speaking from 1st hand knowlegde and experience.

 

[Innovator]

but CC does not buffer your system as well as live sand

I didn't say that aragonite buffers anything. It does however maintain your buffered pH levels where crush coral does not. So go with the aragonite sand. Trust me. I'm speaking from 1st hand knowlegde and experience.

No, it does not...not to any usable state of relevance in acceptable water parameters for an aquarist. In order for aragonite to begin dissolving the pH would have to drastically dip in the low 7's, say 7.5 and under. Other circumstances, deep within a sand bed, may induce the dissolving; however, of conditions where the sand bed is not in unison with the bulk of your aquarium water. Not to say that dissolution is not possible, but as I said there is nil noticeable effects in regards to your system as a whole. In fact, adding calcium carbonate will initially lower pH (just a lil) All in all, by the time you have a need for your aragonite to impact the buffered state of your system, you have far more inportant things you should be worrying about

My apologies for getting off topic, but if you'd like to continue this conversation I'd be more than happy

 

[thekeyofb]

Thanks for your attempt at somewhat of a scientific explaination. All you have managed to do it confuse the issue. I am not interested in having a "debate" with you to be honest. You gave your opinion and I gave mine. So, the original poster asked a question and I responded just as you did. The poster can now take what you have said and what I have said and make a somewhat educated decision as to what he or she will try.

I will end with only this for the original poster. If you use crushed coral without aragonite, I promise you that within 3 to 5 months your pH will drop and your system will crash. So monitor it very carefully. If you use the crush coral with aragonite or aragonite sand, your pH levels will be maintained. I have gone through it and I am speaking from 1st hand knowledge.

 

[thekeyofb]

Ps....to the original poster: Don't just listen to the advice on this site. Do some real research and see why marine aquarist (whether reef or FOWLR or FO) prefer some form of aragonite as a substraint and you will read about the buffering benefits in just about every answer you come across.

 

[lance]

The star isnt reef safe as with the puffer and the lion fish are not reef safe. These are FO type stock.

 

[ccCapt]

I will end with only this for the original poster. If you use crushed coral without aragonite, I promise you that within 3 to 5 months your pH will drop and your system will crash. So monitor it very carefully. If you use the crush coral with aragonite or aragonite sand, your pH levels will be maintained. I have gone through it and I am speaking from 1st hand knowledge.

Ps....to the original poster: Don't just listen to the advice on this site. Do some real research and see why marine aquarist (whether reef or FOWLR or FO) prefer some form of aragonite as a substraint and you will read about the buffering benefits in just about every answer you come across.

Interesting. To quote Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley's article on Chemisty & The Aquarium..."aragonite first becomes soluble in seawater when the pH drops below about 7.7 (this value might be more like 7.5-7.7 in reef tanks where the alkalinity is often higher than in seawater). That level is attained in some sand beds, and permits the dissolution of some of the sand.

The rate of dissolution is fairly low, however, because the rate of delivery and degradation of organics (or certain nitrogen compounds) deep enough in the sand to permit a pH drop is fairly low."​

As Innovator mentioned, if you are seeing a buffering affect from aragonite or crushed coral (both CaCO3), you have major pH and/or other chemistry issues.​

 

[lance]

PH is a tricky level to understand. Things like water flow and time its measured with age of your tank all play a part. As log as it stays within levels and your tank is new then dont try and fix just monitor.

In a FO or FOWLR going bare bottom is no better then CC or sand. A bare bottom could be easier to care for but if not cared for will create problems.

Then haveing some type of substrate means much more beneficial bacteria which means better water conditions if substrate not kept clean.

Things like feeding habits and amount of flow and LR placement can be the differance between enjoying your tank or many headaches.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

... If you use crushed coral without aragonite, I promise you that within 3 to 5 months your pH will drop and your system will crash.

I think that promise would surprise many folks that have run tanks solely with CC for years with no crash.

I have gone through it and I am speaking from 1st hand knowledge.

I don't doubt one minute your experience, but there are so many variables in this hobby, it's not really fair to state as fact that CC will cause a tank to crash.

 

[thekeyofb]

I wasn't trying to be fair...I was trying to speak from my experience just as you seem to be doing. So, please allow the poster to take your knowledge, and everyone elses input and make his/her own decision. Like I stated before to the original poster. I would sincerely urge you to use the internet, contact some aquarium specialist as well as use your local library. I would not solely rely on 1 source of information. Good luck with your tank.