african butterfly fish, peat filtration blackwater treatment

[mango]

I recently found african butterfly fish (pantodon bucholzi) at an lfs downstate while visiting my sister. I did a lot of research on them and decided I could keep one. It seems to be doing well in my standard 10g with a few (2) guppies. Eats freeze-dried bloodworms and an occasional flake, hangs out in my fake plants most of the day, does a couple laps when I turn the light out but that's about all. I have the feeding and possible jumping in order, but have an inquiry regarding peat filtration vs. blackwater treatments.

I read on a few sites that it is best to keep them with peat filtration. What is this and how does it work? Does it work similarly to having driftwood in the tank? I have read that a blackwater treatment would have similar effects, but I haven't been able to find anything like this at my local lfs or the place where I bought the little guy. Would this work just as well or better, or is it really just personal preference?

Would either of these have much bearing on my untimate goal of an African community tank with Congo tetras and a catfish?

 

[TCTFish]

Peat filtering is just running peat moss in the filter. Always good to periodically test pH because peat can bring it down too much, so record keeping can come in handy. Black water treatment is just an additive to condition the water.

http://www.southbroadwaytropicals.com/ItemPages/FWConditioners.htm

(third product down)

also...

http://www.thehiddenreef.com/saltwa...pplies_reef_products/kent_water_treatment.htm

also third product down.

I've been able to keep butterflys and other blackwater fish without the peat in any form. I just kept vigilant on pH levels, but peat and peat extracts can have benefits to help these fish live stronger and longer in captivity.

BTW...don't be surprised if the African butterfly eat any of the guppies. I have seen it happen. Not often, but it can happen. Dang fish!! LOL.

 

[toddnbecka]

Good water quality is more important than pH and hardness. I had a pair of african butterfly fish in a 10 fallon community tank many years ago. I didn't use peat, or anything else to lower the pH. I fed them live wax worms and whatever moths, flies, etc. were handy. Unfortunately, I put a Leporinus fasciatus in the tank with them, and it ate the female alive. She was full of eggs, probably conditioned from all the live insects. From what I read, the fry are nearly impossible to raise in an aquarium. They require tiny live food that floats on the water surface, and only eat what is literally in front of their nose.

 

[TCTFish]

I put a Leporinus fasciatus in the tank with them, and

Famous words...LOL. They are not nice fish. I've seen them beat up on tanks full of large African cichlids!! Pretty impressive for an oversized pencilfish...LOL. Sorry...I'm sure it was not funny, but the fact they are pencilfish with such an attitude just cracks me up.

African butterfly fish love crickets!!...and a safe live food (insects from outside can have pesticidal residue). Wingless fruitflies can be bought and cultured too.

 

[mango]

Thanks for your responses. I wanted an African community for a while, finding the butterfly fish cemented this and has now motivated me to make it happen.

I know consistent water quality is more important than specifics. I'm a little concerned about the high pH of my water though since everything I've read states that ABFs prefer slightly acidic water. Right now my conditions are (and have been since it all changed in early January when I moved back to MI from MO) approximately: Nitrates 0, Nitrites 0, GH 150, KH 200, pH 8 with 1 ABF, 2 guppies + fry and about a dozen ghost shrimp.

Would it be appropriate to use a pH decreaser to treat my water before adding it to the tank?

I'm not concerned about it gulping guppies, they were gotten as virtually-indestructo-office-fishes and fed only when I was in the office (3-4 times per week) for the last 2 years. That didn't seem to hinder their reproductive capabilities any. I was able to furnish my entire dorm hall with gorgeous fish, for free, before I left in December.

I've seen the butterfly swallow a baby guppy already. It was so cool to see it in action and I can't wait to find live food somewhere! I live in the sticks (1hr drive to anything resembling a city) and our lfs's are few and not well-stocked. They all have gold fish, oscars (why I don't know, they never really sell), common plecos, huge snails, 3 (at most) different kinds of tetras and an occasional sickly-looking plant or 2. I either visit the lfs when I visit my lil sis in college, or I shop online.

 

[greenmaji]

I saw the title and though.. OK, why and why?

What PH does your tank water stabilize at?
and is it really nessiary to emulate nature, did any of your fish come from the wild? did you get them at a local petstore?

 

[mango]

Tankwater stabilizes at 7.5-8.0. I forgot to ask the ph at the place I bought it, very far from home. The butterfly fish is eating and cruising about just fine so I'm not going to worry about it any more.

Sorry for over-reacting and sounding like an idiot.

 

[greenmaji]

Sorry for over-reacting and sounding like an idiot.

Oh no.. that's far from nessiary. Your consern is a good thing, if you are conserned about anything its good to get the information you need and posting a question is a good way of getting some answers.

your PH isnt fluctuating that much is it? or is the value just somewere between those two numbers?

 

[donttaptheglass]

Being from "downstate" MI . . . mind if I ask what store you got them from?

 

[TCTFish]

greenmaji...duplicating the natural environment for wild caught fish is important to their acclimation to captivity. African Butterfly fish on the market are most likely going to be wild caught. They are however hardy enough to accept other water conditions but not too much different. It is best to try and keep the pH neutral (7.0). If there are a mix of soft, medium and hard water fish, then 7.4 would be the balance between them with such a mix, so that the softer water fish don't eventually become weakened by a higher pH value that other fish may need. The important thing is to keep the pH stable with very little influx in value.

mango...it's fine to treat change water for pH value prior to putting it into the tank. It's one way to lower pH slowly to avoid pH when adjusting. I personally like Seachem's Neutral Regulator. It will regulate pH at 7.0 from either a lower or higher value.

There's no such thing as sounding like an idiot or overreating when you are asking questions instead of not asking at all.

 

[greenmaji]

African Butterfly fish on the market are most likely going to be wild caught.

See.. that would be one of those answers I was refering to..

In that case I wouldnt have accuired them without close to correct water chemistry coming out of my tap..

 

[mango]

your PH isnt fluctuating that much is it? or is the value just somewere between those two numbers?

It doesn't fluctuate a whole lot like that. No wild swings or anything. When I first moved back home from college, my pH was at about 7.5 for a while. I was checking with Jungle brand test strips once every other day or so. It has slowly crept up to just at 8, maybe ever so slightly under, since then and has stayed there since mid January. I don't like messing with things when the fish are doing well so I never looked forward to taking my tanks back and forth for the summers because of this, but leaving them at home or the dorms was not an option.

Being from "downstate" MI . . . mind if I ask what store you got them from?

Soldan's in Mount Pleasant. My sister goes to CMU and I visit once every other month or so. They said that they had had them for several weeks and they all seemed to be doing very well. No ragged fins or anything like that and they would all eat their share when I watched at feeding time.

I haven't noticed any signs of stress in the 1 I brought home. It eats fine, stalks guppies and swims around like it has decided where its territory is and nobody else is allowed to be there, and has had the most gorgeous olive/black/carmine coloration.

 

[donttaptheglass]

Ok, not quite far enough south . . . if you ever get about an hour further south down to Lansing, I highly enourage you to check out Preuss' Animal House. Incredible fish store (birds too if you're into that). Best one I've ever been in. The in-house Vet is a plus for me and the animals they have in there are all in fantastic shape . . .just about anything you could want. Everything from freshwater rays to tanks full of saltwater live rock. Amazing selection. If they don't have it, they'll get it . . . .if not . . it can't be got.

I only encourage it so much because I've been in LFS's all over the country and I've never seen anything that could compare.

 

[mango]

Actually, I visit Lansing almost as often as I visit Mount Pleasant. My boyfriend's brother and sister-in-law live there. I'll make it a point to go there the next time we're in town.

 

[donttaptheglass]

Awesome, you wont be disappointed!

 

[greenmaji]

To answer your first questions.. yes Ive tried peatmoss to bring the PH down. There is a problem with using it (as I found out a decade or more ago) it releases acid (Tagimin acid) to reduce your PH. It does nothing to Ionicly bind the calcium and magnisium in the water that makes it hard (it doesnt reduce your KH). Soo.. it becomes a very difficult battle to keep your PH staible when you have a high KH water source. (the water is dark and stays that way, if you use carbon it defeats the purpose of using this method)

I would go with RO or RO/DI to maintain a lower KH/PH value, using a measured % to lower the PH slowly.. the blackwater treatments are nice if you like the look, and I have been told by people that use it that it really does help the native fish (from blackwater area's) get ready to spawn, I think that is subjective because the blackwater has never been nessisary from what Ive read/and seen.

I wouldnt be going into all this without TCTfish's information about the fish being wild caught.
I hope you have the best of luck with them.

 

[toddnbecka]

Alternatively, you could gradually lower the pH and hardness by using distilled water for partial water changes. Using chemicals to lower pH is a difficult and tedious process, and buffering the water at lower pH ranges is difficult. I tried, and finally went with fish that either do well in my tap water, or require higher pH and hardness (african rift lake cichlids, catfish, and spiny eels)

 

[greenmaji]

the only reason I suggested RO or RO/DI is you can get a one on ebay for pretty cheap (this didnt used to be the case) and your price per gallon is much cheaper then distilled or RO, RO/DI from the store.