(Alot of) Generals questions for my starter tank?

[CaptainMako]

Posted this at a different site but never got any replies. I would really like some help with this. Doing a copy and paste because I refuse to write all of that again. Out of the two plans it talks about, I've decided to start with a single school of guppies.


I've been researching a few select fish that are available at a local store, and tried to get as much info as possible on setting up my first tank without any trouble.
I was hoping to start simple, with either two schools of different community fish, or one school with an extra bottom feeder or larger fish. I'm leaning more to the two schools idea.
I want a community tank without any aggression if possible, and I was also hoping to avoid spawning if possible. If I had to, I would prefer live bearers.
Here's a short list of the fish I thought were suitable for either the two school or one school plus a larger fish/bottom feeder setup. I've tried my best to take into account the general rule of thumb that larger fish eat smaller fish, and read reviews on the behavior of each fish.
Black moor goldfish (I am aware of the delicate eyes of telescopic goldfish
Bleeding heart tetra (Apparently tend to nip at the fins of larger fish)
Gold algae eater (I am aware that they produce growths on the front of their face as they mature, at that they may become semi aggressive at the same age)
Electric yellow cichlid (Like most cichlids, they will eat smaller fish. I was worried about placing guppies in the same tank with them.)
Red ryukin (Perhaps the only fish I could find no complaints about. They are apparently friendly, and are not picky eaters.)
Blood parrot cichlid (Much like the red ryukin, except that it is shy and complications can arise from stress if there are aggressive tank mates present.)
Guppies (Probably one of my favorite, unfortunately they are also tank fodder. Ideal as they are livebearers and school fish.)
I was estimating about a 30-40 gallon tank for either of these setups.
As for the actual questions, I wanted to get down as much as I could. I'm sorry for jamming so much into a single question, but I have a constraint as to how much I can ask in a day. Please number your answer with the corresponding question.
1. My water sources are limited to tap, what exactly does the term 'cycling' mean. I know a filter-conditioner hardware piece is necessary to filter out chemicals, but what does 'cycling' mean entirely? And how long should you do this for?
2. Does the gallon size I have in mind work for either setup?
3. What should my average school size consist of for either setup? Keep in mind this is my first tank, and I would prefer to avoid aggression born of male dominance, (this is apparently prevalent in cichlids).
4. Do these fish seem compatible, or is there anything that screams 'bad idea'?
5. Aside from a gravel floor and hiding places for the shy fish, what else should be included in the tank? I do not need decorations, but I would definately like some sort of foilage inside. I do not know whether artificial or real foilage is the better idea.
6. After cycling, I purchase the fish and place them inside the tank, this much I know. However, do you seperate them for a time? Place the school in the tank and then the other fish (or one school and then the other for the opposite setup)?
7. I know that fish can die simply from stress induced from being introduced to a new environment. Is there any way to avoid this from happening? I live ten minutes out from the store, and the ride back will be smooth.
8. Will choosing only male fish for a school cause aggression?
9. Would having at least one school breed be a good experience for my first tank?
10. Most of these fish seem to fit well in 70-80 degree water (Farenheight), is this okay? Is there a specific way to change the temperature of the water, or do I just allow it to adapt to room temperature as it cycles.
11. The room I am keeping the tank in becomes hotter than any other room in the home in summer, and colder than any other in winter. This is not the basement. I do not mean this in extremes, but will this effect the tank? I would like the properties of the tank to remain constant.
12. The room is usually darker, lit by lamps. Does the tank require any special lighting other than an LED (if that is the correct term) light on the tank?
14. This sort of ties into the light issue. I plan on placing the tank along a specific wall, with an outlet nearby. Including the filter/conditioner and whatever chords the tank itself needs, will a singlw power outlet with two jacks be enough for this tank?
15. Is there any other advice I can get? I've wanted fish for a very long time and I want the process to go as smoothly as possible for myself, and the fish.
Any major things I will ask the store professional, or anything I cannot get the answers to here.
Thanks a lot

 

[Deep Seven]

1. Cycling refers to the amonia cycle. Amonia is toxic to fish, if enough builds up it will kill your fish. There are bacteria that will convert amonia to nitrites. Nitrites are toxic to your fish. There are bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates. Nitrates are considerably less toxic, and can be removed with plants and weekly PWCs (partial water changes).

Cycling a tank involves adding amonia (various way to add amonia) and letting the bacteria that converts it to nitrites and nitrates build up so that when you add fish, the amonia they produce is taken care of. This takes 4-6 weeks usually.

10. / 11. You want to maintain a constant temperature. They sell heaters that do this nicely. If it gets too hot you'll need to rig up some cooling, usually a fan blowing over the top of your water works fine unless you live in a really hot region.

12. If you want to grow plants, you will need to provide the light they need. If you go plantless a decent display light just to see the fish is fine.

 

[kaiofcanada]

Posted this at a different site but never got any replies. I would really like some help with this. Doing a copy and paste because I refuse to write all of that again. Out of the two plans it talks about, I've decided to start with a single school of guppies.

1. My water sources are limited to tap, what exactly does the term 'cycling' mean. I know a filter-conditioner hardware piece is necessary to filter out chemicals, but what does 'cycling' mean entirely? And how long should you do this for?
2. Does the gallon size I have in mind work for either setup?
3. What should my average school size consist of for either setup? Keep in mind this is my first tank, and I would prefer to avoid aggression born of male dominance, (this is apparently prevalent in cichlids).
4. Do these fish seem compatible, or is there anything that screams 'bad idea'?
5. Aside from a gravel floor and hiding places for the shy fish, what else should be included in the tank? I do not need decorations, but I would definately like some sort of foilage inside. I do not know whether artificial or real foilage is the better idea.
6. After cycling, I purchase the fish and place them inside the tank, this much I know. However, do you seperate them for a time? Place the school in the tank and then the other fish (or one school and then the other for the opposite setup)?
7. I know that fish can die simply from stress induced from being introduced to a new environment. Is there any way to avoid this from happening? I live ten minutes out from the store, and the ride back will be smooth.
8. Will choosing only male fish for a school cause aggression?
9. Would having at least one school breed be a good experience for my first tank?
10. Most of these fish seem to fit well in 70-80 degree water (Farenheight), is this okay? Is there a specific way to change the temperature of the water, or do I just allow it to adapt to room temperature as it cycles.
11. The room I am keeping the tank in becomes hotter than any other room in the home in summer, and colder than any other in winter. This is not the basement. I do not mean this in extremes, but will this effect the tank? I would like the properties of the tank to remain constant.
12. The room is usually darker, lit by lamps. Does the tank require any special lighting other than an LED (if that is the correct term) light on the tank?
14. This sort of ties into the light issue. I plan on placing the tank along a specific wall, with an outlet nearby. Including the filter/conditioner and whatever chords the tank itself needs, will a singlw power outlet with two jacks be enough for this tank?
15. Is there any other advice I can get? I've wanted fish for a very long time and I want the process to go as smoothly as possible for myself, and the fish.
Any major things I will ask the store professional, or anything I cannot get the answers to here.
Thanks a lot

1) A) You don't need to use anything other than any variety of commercially available water conditioners. These clear the tap water of chlorine and chloramines and make the water safe for fish. B) Cycling a tank requires that you allow it to mature (establish a healthy colony of beneficial bacteria that neutralize toxic ammonia and nitrites that are a result of urine, poop, excess food, decaying plant matter, etc. I ONLY recommend using a "fishless cycle" approach as it is the most humane, and will allow you a safe and stable new home for whatever fish you select for your community tank.

Read up on the fishless nitrogen cycle here:
The Basics of Cycling in an Aquarium
The Nitrogen Cycle - ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, fishless cycling

I use a piece of shrimp (plain, unseasoned shrimp from the grocery store) as a source of ammonia while I cycle. I take one shrimp, boil it for a minute, cut it up, store the extra pieces in the freezer, put a piece in the tank, monitor the ammonia and nitrites through the cycle...change the piece of shrimp every 3-5 days making sure nothing gross is growing on it.

2) A 20+gallon tank is a good size for most community setups. But depending on which fish you select you might need a bigger tank. Pick a tank that works for your home/work space environment and you can always pick and choose the fish you want in that tank thoughtfully within the bounds of the tank size. The larger the tank, the more fish you can likely house depending on their bioload and temperment. But since you are avoiding aggressive fish, I think this is less of an issue.

3) The school size is highly dependent on the fish species themselves. Some prefer 5 or more some even greater. Some are fine in smaller numbers. I suggest checking into compatibilty for various combinations. These are helpful references.
Freshwater Fish Compatibility Chart

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

4) This question is too complex. Refer to the above links. The aqadvisor can give you suggestions for tank mate composition based on the size fo your tank.

5) This is a preference. I love and will only keep planted tanks aside from a cichlid tank. I also do not like decorations and lean towards natural aquascaping media such as driftwood, natural stones, etc. This is purely a taste preference.

6) Given that your tank is empty, you can do one of two things. You should have a dedicated quarantine tank (QT) that you can keep fish in until you know they carry no diseases. This is always advisable. The QT tank can be 5-10g or larger, depending on your resources and space. Some people also use buckets and attach mature filtration systems on them when needed.

Since you tank will be new and empty after it has cycled, you can either put fish directly in the tank and allow it to go through a "quarantine period", essentially using your tank as a QT tank and not adding more fish until you know the ones in the tank are disease free. Beware not to use certain medications in your main tank as many of them contain compounds that are nearly impossible to remove and are harmful long term. Do not use copper or malachite green in your main tank. I prefer not to use these at all, ever, but if you do, reserve their use to a QT tank only and handle them with care, they can be cancer causing or deleterious to your health with prolonged exposure.

When starting up a new tank, I usually add them all to the tank at once and maintain a quarantine period. In the meantime, also setup a QT tank to keep as a hospital tank for injured or sick fish or to treat diseased ones.

7) Stress coat and clean water are the best medicine for stressed fish. Clean water being the best . I also always introduce my fish to any tank during lights out. I acclimate them using temp matching/floating them in bags, or a drip method. I transfer them via a net and let them explore the new tank with the lights out. I also don't feed them the first day in the tank. This way feeding aggression is also not an issue.

8) There are few fish besides guppies that you can select all males from. Unless you wanna bribe the people working at the pet store. Most schooling fish are too fast and/or difficult for a novice to sex. I would not worry about sexing schoolers, but instead get only males of the live breeders should you go that route.

9) I love schoolers. I really enjoy harlequin rasboras, blue long finned danios, various tetras. The add an element of movement and elegance to the scenery that makes all the difference in the world.

10) You should invest in a tank heater. It is important to maintain your tank at a constant temperature. Fluxes in temperature can stress your fish and result in ALOT of bad stuff (diseases).

11) This should not be an issue if you have a good heater. Don't go cheap on this. Buy the right size for whatever tank you get. I recommend Hydor Theo heaters. They have never failed me.

12) If you plan on keeping live plants, you will need lights with various spectral ranges and intensities. There are a number of threads and stickies on this. This is more advanced and is something you can upgrade to in the future. Having a proper tank lighting system is recommended in any case as lighting can directly cause various algae issues. This is something you should do more independent research on before deciding on. It can be simple or very involved and expensive but worthwhile investment.

13)
14) I use a Blekin powerstrip always fort my tanks. Brand doesnt matter. But the powerstrip will prevent damage from powersurges. Just as with other valuable pieces of equipment, protect this investment too.

15) No offense to store workers, but if you have questions, I would post in these forums first and get advice from people who actually keep a variety of tanks. They have valuable expertise that you can not guarantee someone working in a store to have. They simply have a job, they are not necessarily aquarists.

Welcome to the hobby!!! Glad to have you and glad that you are doing the research up front.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Black moor goldfish (I am aware of the delicate eyes of telescopic goldfish
Bleeding heart tetra (Apparently tend to nip at the fins of larger fish)
Gold algae eater (I am aware that they produce growths on the front of their face as they mature, at that they may become semi aggressive at the same age)
Electric yellow cichlid (Like most cichlids, they will eat smaller fish. I was worried about placing guppies in the same tank with them.)
Red ryukin (Perhaps the only fish I could find no complaints about. They are apparently friendly, and are not picky eaters.)
Blood parrot cichlid (Much like the red ryukin, except that it is shy and complications can arise from stress if there are aggressive tank mates present.)
Guppies (Probably one of my favorite, unfortunately they are also tank fodder. Ideal as they are livebearers and school fish.)
I was estimating about a 30-40 gallon tank for either of these setups.

The fish in bold are not compatable with one another, especially in such a small tank... Goldfish are cooler water fish, even fancies prefer a cooler temp than the others. Yellow labs are way way way too aggressive for the other tankmates. Blood parrots would be ok with other fish, but IMO not the ones you have listed.

 

[Deep Seven]

6. When you know what fish you want there will probably be a "better" order to introduce them to your tank. You don't want to add too many at a time as you might overload the bacteria you've built up from cycling. Often people will have a smaller tank they can use to quarantee new fish and observe them for a week or two to make sure they have no diseases before you add them to your main tank. A QT (quarantee tank) is good to have so you can remove sick fish from the main tank for treatment or isolation.

7. The stress comes from the changing water parameters. You'll want to read up on acclimatization. There are several ways to acclimatize your fish before adding to your tank. Some creatures are more sensitive then others and need more care taken.

Thats about all I can help you with, I don't really know the answers to your other questions.

Hope that helps

 

[dkpate]

Welcome to the forum!
Goldfish need cooler water than the other tropical fish, so I would find other "cold water," docile fish to go with them, or just skip out on them altogether. Having goldfish takes up ALOT more space than other fish, since they are so messy. One goldie should have at least 10-15 gallons just for itself.

 

[Vircomore]

Previous posters have answered your specific questions, however as someone who has been caring for Mollies and doing a lot of research on livebearers, I can give you the following tips:

- the only surefire way to prevent breeding in livebearers is to operate a school of all one gender.

- if you go that route, females are generally a better choice because (specifically with mollies and swordtails) males will become aggressive with one another without female interaction.

 

[kaiofcanada]

+1 to all the posts after my first posting. This is all good advice, and more specific to your choices of fish.

I didn't mean not to comment on this. I just assumed since most of those fish are either incompatible with one another for various reasons, that you would pick from the list rather than trying to cram them all in one tank

If your interest is in a set of schoolers...I would focus on picking a schooling fish that you like and select compatible tank mates based on the water parameters that they prefer (ie: temp, pH, size requirements etc.)

You can choose cool water or tropical set up. But as stated above, you have both on your list and each has very different requirements besides the water temp.

I think picking the tankmates is really the fun part. I look forward to seeing what you decide on. Once you decide on the schoolers or temp, people can always give feedback as to more specifics. You can also start a poll and have people vote on and give feedback on a shorter list of compatible tankmates you are interested in.

 

[CaptainMako]

Only just reading some of these replies, and I am very appreciative. Thank you all so much, this means a lot to me. I know I may be taking a rather ridiculous inquistive journey asking so many questions, but I want all the aspects to be covered. I'll be reading over each reply and making notes, and I will probably end up visiting the store I have in mind in a few days to investigate tanks and conditioners. I probably won't buy anything quite yet, only ask the professional what I can. Just to clarify, I was originally going to purchase from Petco, being as they are the only place in town. I found out about a place a short distance from here however, people that actually know what they're talking about and supposedly were/are members of this website.
Here's their site if you guys want to see if they check out.
http://aquariumsolutions.org/

 

[CaptainMako]

Also, bear with me in the coming few days as I pelt this forum with more questions. I may very well be prolonging this idea until November (When proper funds are availible, I personally cannot make the necessary funds myself, being a child. I have a birthday coming up that month however.)
Simply with the haste and helpfulness that the communities' posts came with was enough to convince me to stay here, I will definately become an active member once this and recent business is taken care of.
I'd be making notes of this right now, but unfortunately my massive research document containing information on peculiar species of fish has been corrupted. The entire file is gone and its rather depressing me. I was able to get the names at least, even after trying every single technique possible for recovery, so I guess that means I will have to start over.
Just to clarify, I will be getting my fish from a store based a short distance away from me. I was originally considering Petco, as my town itself has next to no other places to aquire healthy fish. Then I read about most fish coming from them being sickly.
The store s based out of Spokane Valley in Eastern Washington, here's their website if you guys wanted to see if they check out. It's apparently very caring of its animals, and less corporate like Petco.
Aquarium Solutions — Fish, what else?
I live in Coeur d'Alene, haven't found any other pet places nearby. If anyone knows of any places on the off chance, could they tell me?

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

just to add on to vircomore post. even if you get a small group of female live bearers there is a chance that the females could already be carrying sperm from a previous encounter with a male. i bought about 12 guppies and within 2 days i already had fry.

 

[dkpate]

+1 Goby.

 

[CaptainMako]

Apologies for the double post, my browser was having some issues with continual refreshing and none of my posts showed.
Just to test what you guys have taught me, I'll run through cycling to see if I really understand.
You cycle a new tank to establish a colony of beneficial bacteria that can take care of ammonia your fish put off through waste. The process can take weeks but is apparently shortened with the fishless cycling route. Regardless of which method is used, ammonia is introduced to the tank and left to shift to nitrites and nitrates by other bacteria. Nitrates are the less toxic of the three, and can be filtered out by water changes and filters.
The only thing I was stuck on was what beneficial bacteria you're trying to colonize inside the tank. Are we talking about trying to get ammonia and nitrite to convert to nitrates so the tank is less toxic, or did I miss something completely?
Also, as a side note; would I have to post offbeat questions about this tank in the proper categories, or would I be able to use this thread in particular. I'd prefer to keep everything together.
Right now I'm just trying to piece together the cycling process step-by-step and figure out what the procedure is for introducing the fish/quarantine tanks.
Thanks again.

 

[Vircomore]

Correct.

There are 3 types of bacteria that handle the cycling of Ammonia through to Nitrate.

The reason that cycling takes as long as it does is because, not only does it take time for the Ammonia -> Nitrite bacteria to grow, but also the Nitrite -> Nitrate bacteria can't grow efficiently until the first set feeds the 2nd set enough Nitrite.

 

[CaptainMako]

So the bacteria you are establishing in the tank is nitrates that were previously residue from the new tank and anything out of the water?
These nitrates can be kept in check by weekly 15-25% water changes, the filter and a live plant.
Do you exchange the water out after cycling and then condition it?
Even with cycling, I keep hearing that chemicals from tap can still sicken your fish. It seems like adding any new water after cycling would just interfere with the nitrates inside, and effectively render your cycling useless.

 

[Vircomore]

Here's a fairly basic diagram of what the Nitrogen cycle looks like:

(All Stages of "Good" bacteria exist everywhere, in the air, the tank, your body, everywhere.)
||
||
||
||
V
[Ammonia Enters tankwater through fish waste, decaying food, or fishless cycling]
||
||
||
V
===Ammonia-to-Nitrite Bacteria start eating this ammonia and grow huge numbers inside your tank and filter===
||
||
||
V
[These bacteria "poop" a chemical called "Nitrite"]
||
||
||
V
===Nitrite-to-Nitrate Bacteria start eating this Nitrite and grow huge numbers inside your tank and filter===
||
||
||
V
[These bacteria "poop" a chemical called "Nitrate"]
||
||
||
V
((You remove the buildup of Nitrates when you change some old water for new water.))


So technically, it' not really a "strict cycle" -- but more of a "conveyor belt" where the fish waste is at the beginning and the water changes are the end.

 

[CaptainMako]

So the bacterium that produces nitrite and nitrate pose no threat to the fish, or are they also disposed of during water changes and through the filter?

 

[Vircomore]

Correct. They're completely harmless to pretty much all life, fish, human, etc.

Doing a water change will not harm these types of bacteria, because they live on surfaces and only interact with the water that's touching them at the time. So changing water won't hurt the population of the bacteria, it just gets rid of the excess Nitrates.

There are, however, three ways that you can significantly harm the bacteria in your tank:

1. Excessive deep cleaning. If you repeatedly comb through your gravel and scrub off your decorations too often, you'll kill off some bacteria which will cause your Ammonia and Nitrites to rise until they can grow back to deal with it.

2. Cleansers and Anti-bacterial chemicals. Getting any kind of cleaning chemical or soap into your tank will be harmful to both your bacteria and your fish.

3. Replacing filter pieces. Over time, your filter will collect a lot of crap. Literally. The worst thing you can do is to throw away the pieces and replace them with new ones. 80% of your bacteria live in those pieces. Instead, rinse the poo out of the pieces by swooshing them around in a bucket of tank water that you just took out of the tank. This will get the poo out without killing bacteria.

Unfortunately - Chlorine and Chloramine - the two chemicals in faucet water that keep us humans healthy, will also kill the helpful tank bacteria. This is why you have to use a "dechlorinator" like Seachem Prime to break down the chlorine before it can get into your bacteria colony and kill them off.

 

[CaptainMako]

Alright, I'm starting to get it, thank you.

With the faucet chemical issue in mind, what is the situation with water during the entire process. I know it is needed in order for ammonia converting, but do you clean this tap water seperately before placing it in the tank to begin cycling?

 

[Vircomore]

That's usually what I do. I'll siphon out the amount of water that I'm going to be changing, then I'll fill a bucket with tap water (trying to get it to feel the same temp as the tank water) - then add the relative dosage of dechlorinator - let it sit for a few minutes - then pour into the tank (slowly, to make sure you don't knock around decorations, gravel, or your fish!) - then repeat until the tank is full.

I also unplug my filter for the duration of the water change for 2 reasons:

1. Gives the dechlorinator extra time to work in the tank before the new water can get to my filter.

2. I use a fairly powerful canister filter in a fairly small tank, and when the water level drops below the output nozzle - water can spray everywhere if it's not turned off.