Ammonia Nightmare!

[mother2kamryn]

It's me AGIAN. For any one who doesnt know my previous situation, I'll try to sum it up. Moved cross country. Set up our 38 gal w/ 4 angels 2 plecos. Set up my 2 gal w/ male beta. Didnt have any testing supplies before today to give you any numbers. I have lost 2 angels since saturday due to ammonia levels. Other 2 angels and plecos are still staying at top and acting funny. heavy breathing.
went to store to get testing strips for ammonia. 38 gal tests .25 ppm. My betta looks awful in his 2 gal. wont eat. sits at bottom on side. so i checked his levels. his reads .25 ppm also. Did some reading on the net. Decided to check the tap water. Tap reads .25 ppm as well. Tested tap with declorinator (Start Right) it reads 0 ppm. Both tanks have the start right in them. I dont know what to do. I'm almost ready to throw in the towel. Husband leaves and disaster strikes. My husband loves fish, but I honestly cant afford this. Is there any suggestions? What is the deal with my readings. That doesnt make sense to me. Tap has ammonia? bad tests? even my hardy betta (SATIN, that is his name. dark red color) looks like he will dye soon also. PLEASE HeLp!

 

[freshwatergal]

First thing you might want to try is a water change. Everyone on here tells me that's the best thing to do. Do the water change and get rid of the "Bad" stuff. If you've had the tanks set up for a while, you could probably vaccum the gravel, if not I would probably leave that alone for now. I'm sure you know most of this, but the first thing I would do is do like a 25% change. Hope that helps...

 

[mother2kamryn]

Sorry I didnt post that. I have done 3 water changes in the last 36 hours. no gravel vacuum. I understand that is where the "good stuff" is trying to grow. Thanks though. Even with water change. NO change in reading. Still have panicky fish. pleco's almost out of the water.

 

[AngelFishFan]

Did you rinse the gravel after you moved? or is it the original from before?

 

[freshwatergal]

How long have you had the tank set-up?

 

[mother2kamryn]

No I tossed the old gravel. Bought brand new gravel when we bought the fish and thouroghly (sp) cleaned them before putting in the tank.

 

[mother2kamryn]

Tank was set up a week and a half before the fish were placed in there. Fish have been in there since saturday.

 

[AngelFishFan]

Have you observed any lesions or fungus on them? What area did you move to? What is the average temperature there right now?

 

[freshwatergal]

Well, from what I have been "taught" on here, your tank might just be cycling...I'm no expert of course, but I know once I had my tank set-up and the ammonia went a little high, I did the water changes about once a day, and checked the levels after a few days, and they started coming down. Have you tested for nitrItes? That is normally the second thing you need to check.

 

[mother2kamryn]

As far as I can see there is nothing wronge with any of my fish in either tank as far as ick or fungus. betta traveled cross country with me in car. moved from North Carolina to California. Actually the temp is the same right now. Any other time of the year it would be scortching here but even in the desert its the same temp I just came from. I am keeping my house temp the same as before. as well as keeping the tank water same as before. couldnt control temp for betta during move but he made it just fine. he was fine till I put him in this California water.

 

[AngelFishFan]

And you are dechloring the water... right? I disagree strongly with that fast of a water change.. too much too soon... about 1/3 every 4 days if necessary. fewer changes are better. You have freshwater, So i would look into aquarium salt. I know, salt seems pointless, but just as you soak a sore ankle in epsom salts, aquarium salts help the fish's gill function along with their resistance to external parasites. Along with improved natural slime coat.

 

[mother2kamryn]

I am almost possitive that my 38 gal tank is cycling. My worry is how my angels are reacting to the levels. I've already lost 2 out of the 4. And what throws me off is the ammonia readings from my tap water and the reading from tap water with declorinator added. That doesnt make sence to me. Satin is a harty betta he has never had problems before I put him in this water. I dont know what to do to save my fish. The cycle must go on in the 38 gal. I just dont want to loose any more. And I'm stumped on my betta.

 

[mother2kamryn]

I too also thought about the salt. Then after reading another post with someone having ammonia problems. I understand that salt can raise my ammonia levels also. I know that is alot of water change but not much change in ph. I know it slows down the cycle but I felt that I needed to dilute it basically. I wish you guys could see how awful my fish look. even after all that cycling. my pleco's are almost out of the water they are up there so high and my two angels are trying to breath the bubbles. I feel so bad cause I know its burning thier gills.

 

[freshwatergal]

How much water agitation do you have. I know on the test kit I have it says to up the aggitation. Angels are probably not the best fish to cycle a tank as they are VERY sensitive (don't worry, Ive made the same mistake with a different fish).I would say to just leave it for now, don't change anymore water, and wait til tomorrow. I know it will be tough...some people on here don't like to use such things as ammo-lock 2 or anything like that, but it can always be used as a last resort. Maybe run to the lfs and buy some ammo-chips to add to your filter. Sorry I can't be of more help... :?

 

[mother2kamryn]

agitation. boy am I going to sound like a reject. Remember the hubby is the fish person not me. I just like to look. ok. I know we have an undergroun filter system and there are three separate things that make bubbles... but I know they AREN'T power heads. They just have those carbon black rock thingies in them. I dont know if they are enough or not. any suggestions?

 

[freshwatergal]

hmmm...lemme think. I know when I check my ammonia levels and they are high, I do the lil water change and wait a day or two. Maybe all the water changes are what's buggin your fish? Don't start freakin out...lol...as this will only cause you more stress. I would say let it be overnight and most of tomorrow and see where you are tomorrow night. Hopefully someone else will stop by that has more experience with this type of thing, and will be able to give you more technical help.

 

[mother2kamryn]

lol... I guess its noticable that I'm wigging out. Its just that this happens every time my husband leaves. And I get labeled as the "Fish Murderer". Thanks for all the help every one. I guess I will leave them be as aweful as they are suffering. The only thing that I still dont understand and no one has commented on is my ammonia levels in tap vs. tap w/ declorinator. And my poor poor Beta. Thanks agian to everyone.

 

[jsoong]

I am no expert - however, it does sound like your tanks are cycling. I read that you toss the old gravel & got new ones with the move, and you likely toss out the bacteria colonies with it, so you are in essence starting from stratch.

The thing I cannot explain is the Ammonia reading in the tap water. Most places use chloramines to treat tap water, and that can break down to Chlorine & Ammonia - but the breakdown should be slow & the NH3 & Cl shouldn't register. In any case, once you added the dechlorinator, that should take care of it.

One other thing - what is the pH ... as Ammonia is much more toxic at higher pH.
Also, assuming your tank is cycling, you need to know nitrite levels as well and keep that down. Your NH3 level isn't really that high, so I am wondering if it is high NO2.

I don't think angels do well in a cycling tank, so you have a few options: One is to do lots of water changes to keep the NH3 & NO2 down. This may in istself stress the fish, so you need to match the water parameter - temperature, pH, etc as much as possible to minimize that.

The other option is to reestablish the bacteria colonies by adding Bio-spira. I have never ussed this myself, but the people on the forum swear by it.

If it is high NO2 that is the problem, then you can add salt at 0.05 to 0.1% to protect the fish from NO2 poisoning till the tank finishes cycling.

As a stop gap, one other option is to use an ammonia absorbing chemical - either zolite in filter, or somthing like Prime or Amquel Plus. This is not a permanant solution, but will temporary binds the NH3 & NO2 while you get things sorted out.

If you are suspecting something else in the water (The betta should be OK with a bit of ammonia, right?), it may be worthwhile to try bottled or RO water from the supermarket to see if it changes anything.

Good luck.

 

[mother2kamryn]

Ok. So tommorow I will go and get some bottled water for the 2 gal betta tank. That should take care of the amonia in his tank. I dont have NO2 testing kit so I dont know what those levels are. Only access to that kit is the lfs and when I priced them today they want 17.99 for the kit. That is crazy. I am low on $ and I cant see paying that. I payed 16.99 today for the ammonia kit. With the ammonia levels not being sky rocketing as you said maybe the NO2 is more of my problem. The only thing that I have found in my house is some Aqua Safe. Its says that is will remove chloramine and toxic ammonia. Should I use that. I understand its temporary and from what I have read, anything like this will throw off my ammonia readings. So if someone suggests that I use it, How long should I wait till I do another Ammonia reading?

You guys/gals are the best. Thank you so much for all of your help. I swear by this site.

 

[Allivymar]

Urgh. Ammonia in the tap water. It does happen; I suggest calling the water supply company ASAP; not only is it affecting the fish, YOU certainly don't want to be drinking it!

As for the rest...erm...what jsoong said LOL its been covered rather well. I will add that I think the stop gap suggestions (I know..ME saying use ammonia converters!) may be what you need to do atm, as water changes will simply add ammonia.

Otherwise I think water changes WOULD be the way to go. Angelfish lurve fresh clean treated water; you'll find breeders do daily changes on fry tanks initially to remove uneaten food, and it doesn't phase the fry (cept maybe the occasional trip up the siphon LOL). When my 25g was overstocked, I was doing water changes 3 times a week to reduce nitrate levels; never caused a prob. Long as you aren't chasing the fish around, they shouldn't be too stressed *grin* and quite frankly some of mine have a thing about the siphon tube and follow it around LOL