Angelfish Issues- Raw?

[FallenAngel]

Hello,

I am back to discuss angelfish again. My angel (whom i have assumed is female), has several raw redish scales along the top of her back. I was wondering what could be the cause of this. She is not scratching against objects, but from what i have researched, she has been trying to "pair off" with my other angel for several months now but i suppose he has yet to live up to the test because i have had no sign of angel eggs, only the nerite snails. They have been lip locking and tend to stay near eachother when they lip lock as well as do elaborate little dances with eachother beforehand. The silver one has been especially jumpy and tempermental lately, to the point of freaking out so back she was slamming against the top of the water just because i turned the light on. The black and white angel acts normal, but sometimes is spooked when the other angel gets anxious, i have even seen him seem to try to bury himself in the sand before. All in all, coukd the marks on the silver just be injuries or something more serious? I have been thinking of rehoming the silver for quite some time, and talked to a fish store as well about trading her in. Im not sure if the behavior they are displaying is temporary, or only going to get worse. We have had angels together before without these problems. The two grew up together as well. Any input would be great.

Other tank mates:
5 nerite snails
5 cory cats
5 cherry barbs
4 rosy finned tetras
1 clown pleco
3 kuhli loaches

30 gallon tank
Planted with driftwood
Aquaclear 75 filter

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[FallenAngel]

Sorry for the red tint, ill try to get some more, forgot the red tint app was on

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[FallenAngel]

Better photos

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[FallenAngel]

More pics of the other angel incase that is where youll believe the problem lies

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[fishliker]

First let me say I hardly have any experience with Angels. But my guess is these 2 Angels are not comfortable with each other. I don't know if it's the size of the tank or the temperments or both. They seem stressed. See what others say. Good luck.


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[ghyti]

I think fishliker is right, they are stressed. 30 gallons is way too small for two angels and all those other fish. Thirty gallons would be OK for just the angels, but not all the rest. I think that the cherry barbs have been nipping at your angels to cause the redness problem and stress them out.

 

[FallenAngel]

Definatly not the cherry barbs. They are very peaceful and do not bother the angels at all, even at feeding time. Cherry barbs are not as aggressive as other barbs are, they are mild comparatively. As far as over stocking goes, i do know i am over. I used aq advisor and it told me i was slightly over due to the filter capacity i have, but space wise i did not think about and that could be stressful. As a side note, a couple of weeks ago i was by the tank and noticed the heater turn on, but the tank was already on 78 degrees, almost as soon as the heater came on, both angels started to go nuts hitting the top of the water and slamming into everything. It seemed like they calmed down almost as soon as i unplugged the heater. Could it be that the heater was sending out an electric current that effected the angels more than the other fish? I forgot all about the incident until today. Could they have been injuring themselves everytime the heater came on? I believe the angel has had those spots for at least a week if not more, i just finally remembered to post about them. I havent noticed anymore spastic behavior since then although the two are still trying to pair off and lip locking. Overall their behavior has improved, which is one reason i havent rehomed the silver yet. Also, could the heater (if it was sending out shocks) have mentally or physically changed the angels? Made them more skittish or anything?

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[FallenAngel]

UPDATE: Did a water test, the parameters are as follows

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: .15 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate:40 ppm

While the pH is high for angelfish, it is stable given our tap water quality but I will try to bring it down a bit because I know angels like a lower pH and more acidic conditions.
As far as the nitrate's go, they are slightly high however I have not had a chance to do a water change in about two weeks and am due for one. I am planning on taking care of that tomorrow.

 

[fishliker]

UPDATE: Did a water test, the parameters are as follows

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: .15 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate:40 ppm

While the pH is high for angelfish, it is stable given our tap water quality but I will try to bring it down a bit because I know angels like a lower pH and more acidic conditions.
As far as the nitrate's go, they are slightly high however I have not had a chance to do a water change in about two weeks and am due for one. I am planning on taking care of that tomorrow.

Yes, a water change would be good.


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[ghyti]

And I wouldn't fiddle with your ph, would probably do more harm than good. I raise lots of angels at a ph of 8.3 without any problems.
Did you stick your finger in the water when the heater light was on to see if there were any shocks? If the heater is allowing current into the water, you would know it.

 

[FallenAngel]

No i did not. I have unplugged the heater since though. I thought about it at the time, but was unsure about putting my hand in the tank if it was by chance charged

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[Sambo7475]

And I wouldn't fiddle with your ph, would probably do more harm than good. I raise lots of angels at a ph of 8.3 without any problems.
Did you stick your finger in the water when the heater light was on to see if there were any shocks? If the heater is allowing current into the water, you would know it.

I would highly recommend against doing this, you could get a full 110 AC shock, which could seriously injure you. If you have a voltmeter, you could test that way, but do not put your finger in.
My guess is that the heater has a loose part and is vibrating when coming on, causing a ton of "noise" under water where the angels can hear it. You could try to replace the heater and see.

 

[ghyti]

you could get a full 110 AC shock, which could seriously injure you. I

Seriously? When was the last time you heard about anyone seriously injured by a 110V shock? Depends on what you are standing on when you put your finger in. A dry wooden floor and you will get a tickle. A puddle of water on a basement floor and you will get enough of a shock to make you jerk your hand out, no injuries, unless you hit something jerking your hand out.

 

[FallenAngel]

Regardless of the intensity, i was not in the mood to be shocked that day and did not put my hand in the water. I just saw it turn on and the fish act up, cut off and them settle down so i assumed it was the cause and have since cut it off. I do not know if it was or not for fact.

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[54seaweed]

I agree the tank is to small , and or they are growing and scales are flaking off , could also be all the above
no electric current in the water feels good , I had a small current affect the tank , but there also could be a chance to have a stronger current , 110 will keep drawing you in and could do some damage , now 220 would give you a better chance of not getting as hurt as it will kick you away not draw you in strange but true

 

[FallenAngel]

I didnt know the scales could flake. Unfortunatly, i have no way to get a bigger tank or remove fish so i suppose ill just have to not replace them when they eventually die off. The closest fish store to me is over an hour away and i dont think they will take the angel now with the issues and i want to keep the black and white. I dont remember why i overstocked, i think it might have been to lessen territorial aggression by overcrowding so territories cant be made, but that idea seems really stupid now and half thought out. As far as the flaking goes, i didnt know they could flake as they grow. This is totally out there, but i read that sometimes plecos suck on fish. You dont think thats a possibility do you? I hardly ever see the pleco out, but of course i dont know what happens when the lights are off in the tank and the pleco is actually active.

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[fishliker]

How large is the clown pleco?


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[FallenAngel]

Maybe 2 - 3 inches. I rarely see, him out from under a spefic log in the aquarium. Ive had him at least 3 years

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[superpeytonm]

UPDATE: Did a water test, the parameters are as follows

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: .15 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate:40 ppm

While the pH is high for angelfish, it is stable given our tap water quality but I will try to bring it down a bit because I know angels like a lower pH and more acidic conditions.
As far as the nitrate's go, they are slightly high however I have not had a chance to do a water change in about two weeks and am due for one. I am planning on taking care of that tomorrow.

Is no one mentioning the .15 ppm of ammonia? Despite whether or not this connects with the problem at hand, this is an issue in and of itself.

 

[FallenAngel]

Im not too worried about the ammonia. I was having a hard time reading the color vs the chart because it was slightly darker but not near enough to be the .25. It could be .05 or 0 even and i just couldnt tell. Ive done a water change since then and changed out the old folter cartridge, both of which needed to be done when the test was taken, so im betting the levels are better now

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