Angels Spawned in Community 55G

[tinyninjafishy]

Idk how to attach the image. But its nice three 75 gallon tank breeder setup.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

I have read that angels prefer softer water and that it is beneficial in making sure the eggs can be fertilized, however my water is pretty hard.

Any suggestions on how to decrease my water hardness without changing any of the other water parameters? I have seen things to put in your filter but you need to change it every two days or something so that doesn't seem to be a very good long term solution.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Andy Sager]

I have read that angels prefer softer water and that it is beneficial in making sure the eggs can be fertilized, however my water is pretty hard.

Any suggestions on how to decrease my water hardness without changing any of the other water parameters? I have seen things to put in your filter but you need to change it every two days or something so that doesn't seem to be a very good long term solution.

Thanks for all the help!

While it's true for wild fish, it's not as much for domesticated fish. I had a hatchery in FL with over 50 pairs of Angels spawning successfully in hard alkaline water. So it's going to depend on where your fish came from as to whether you need to alter your water. If you are getting hatch, you don't need to do anything different. IMO
As for a good long term solution, a RO or RO/DI unit will give you soft water so you can either mix that with your tap water to soften it or use it solely after it's been remineralized. Other options are rainwater, peat moss or other filter pads that will need to be replaced periodically ( once they have been saturated.) Once again, I wouldn't rush to do any of these unless you have had 0 success after the fish's first 6 or so spawns. Anything prior to this just may be the youth of the fish.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

What do you mean by getting hatch?

I will definitely wait to do anything until I get them in their own tank (hoping that the reason they aren't being fertilized is due to the fact that they are still in a community tank.) One more month until they get their own!

 

[Andy Sager]

What do you mean by getting hatch?

I will definitely wait to do anything until I get them in their own tank (hoping that the reason they aren't being fertilized is due to the fact that they are still in a community tank.) One more month until they get their own!

In most cases, new breeding Angelfish are not very proficient at their job so in these first 5 or 6 spawns, the only thing I look for is 1 hatched egg. That proves that you A) Have a male and a female and B) That they are fertile. If you get that, that also means that the water is fine for fertilization in the future ( assuming the water parameters don't change.)
There's not a lot you can definitely determine when the fish are in a community tank with external filters. Those filters could be removing or dispersing the milt before the sperm has a chance to fertilize the eggs. This is why all ( or at least to my knowledge all) professional Angelfish breeders use air driven sponge filters for their spawning tanks. That's more than enough biological filtering a single pair of fish should need. That also eliminates and removal of milt from the water which is what is necessary for fertilization. So if you have all of that and you are getting egg(s) to hatch, you don't need to do anything more to your water for success. A higher percentage of hatch will come with age.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Andy, I was looking at previous threads and I am afraid that I think is my female might have some genetic defects which I read you said we should stop breeding the fish immediately. Can I leave them in the community tank or do I have to fully separate them?

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Here is a picture of them.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Here is a picture of the tank system that I am getting. I don't know if I can have two pairs of angels and use the middle three tanks as grow out with a guppy colony on the bottom? Any stocking advice would also be amazing!

 

[Andy Sager]

Your pics didn't post ( or I can't see anything but a green square. ) Genetic faults are really more about breeding. Depending on the severity of the fault, the fish can live a long life just fine or a short troubled one. For example, a short fin will not effect the fish much unless it is in a tank with high current whereas one with a nub for a tail will struggle to swim always under any condition.
So unless the fish is having issues with getting food or is unable to compete with the other fish in the tank, being in a community tank is not really a problem.
For the future, if you are looking for fish that do not have faults, compare the fish you are interested in with this pic: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DAERBN/fre...ack-angelfish-scalare-pterophyllum-DAERBN.jpg
This is the basic shape of a male ( front fish) and female angelfish. Keep in mind however, there have been adaptations such as wide fin, veil tail, coloration that will alter the way the fish might look and not be a true "fault." For example, I prefer Angels with longer dorsal and anal fins which are found more in wild stock than domestic stock although many producers are "making" fish with the longer fins.
Here's a link to the more common faults to watch out for: TAS Library - Culling Guide for Freshwater Angelfish

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Would I be able to cull the bad genes out? Or should I not even attempt to start the breeding process with this pair?

 

[ghyti]

I can't see the pictures either. If you have fish with known genetic defects it is a good idea not to breed them. Some defects can be either genetic or environmental, such as defective ventral fins. Poor water conditions when they are small will cause this as well as genetic problems.

It is very difficult and almost impossible to breed out a genetic defect, especially if it is recessive. Just because it doesn't always express doesn't mean it isn't there so you never know if it is gone or not.

 

[Andy Sager]

Would I be able to cull the bad genes out? Or should I not even attempt to start the breeding process with this pair?

Read the culling guide.

I can't see the pictures either. If you have fish with known genetic defects it is a good idea not to breed them. Some defects can be either genetic or environmental, such as defective ventral fins. Poor water conditions when they are small will cause this as well as genetic problems.

It is very difficult and almost impossible to breed out a genetic defect, especially if it is recessive. Just because it doesn't always express doesn't mean it isn't there so you never know if it is gone or not.

+1 Best to not even get started with it.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Can you see this image?

 

[tinyninjafishy]

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Alright I have tried 3 different things to try and post this image, but no matter what I do I can't see it.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Thank you for all of the advice!

 

[Andy Sager]

Can you see this image?

Yes, Only if I open them in another tab.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Odd. Any idea on how to get it so they show up directly on the forum?

 

[Andy Sager]

Odd. Any idea on how to get it so they show up directly on the forum?

I'm not a computer geek but a fish geek but I can tell you that all my images are jpegs and uploaded directly to this site not through another site. That may be the issue? Try resizing your photo to a smaller size ( if too large and takes a long time to load) then upload directly to here using the "Go Advanced" tab below and "Manage Attachments" under the message box.

 

[tinyninjafishy]

Okay. I am really hoping this has the picture of my angel pair and the tank system I am getting.