Another newbie that didn't do his research

[RightTurnClyde]

Hi everyone. New to the hobby and learning a lot from the forums here. Here's my story so far:

On a whim, my family kind of jumped into starting up a 10 Gallon tank without knowing a thing and just trusting some generic advice from a big box store that shall go nameless (rhymes with Petco.) They said we either had to wait a month before adding fish or... for just a few dollars more we could use API Quickstart and add fish after 24 hours. Wrong. It did not work for our tank and I have been battling high ammonia levels and a urine smell from my tank ever since. I lost 2 Gold Dust Mollies after only 3 days and have 1 Silver Molly and 1 Bristlenose Pleco that are still alive and seem to be doing fine. I have been a research machine and have learned a lot about various products and how to cycle a tank. Just too late, unfortunately.

My local fish store owner recommended Microbe Lift Special Blend to help get the good bacteria started and I have been using that weekly for the past couple weeks. Since then, the smell has diminished, but it's still there. I believe my biggest problem (other than a lack of patience) is that we are using an Aqueon Quietflow 10 for our filter. It's working great and is reasonably quiet, but there is not much in it for the BB to grab onto. So just yesterday, I got some Fluval Biomax media and stuck it anywhere I could in the filter (without causing a bypass of the filter pad.) I'm hoping this will help. My LFS said that was a good idea and that at this point, it's just a waiting game for that BB to develop. I've also started using Prime as my water conditioner in order to keep the ammonia from being too toxic. The tank is 3 weeks old today.

I did a 40% water change last week and again this week. It's strange that the ammonia smell seems to be worse for a day after the water change, then it gets a little better. Am I kicking up too much gunk when I vacuum the gravel? My ammonia was between .5 and 1 ppm this morning and my PH is off the charts. We have hard water and right out of the tap, our PH is 7.6+. The test I have only goes up to 7.6, so I have no idea if it's actually 7.6 or 8.6.

Anyway... thanks for reading. I'm sure I'll have questions in the future.

 

[threnjen]

Welcome to the forum!

It sounds to me like in the last week you have really gotten on the right track - great job! With your high pH, I would aim for a water change when ammonia hits .25-.5 (ammonia is more toxic to fish the higher the pH.) People with a lower pH can let it get away with a higher level but for you I would really recommend diligence for your fish's safety.

Vacuuming is important, especially in your tank with the pleco (who might really be unsuitable for your tank size, but as I'm no pleco expert i will leave that to another to chime in). Plecos are big poopers and that waste is just going to add to your ammonia level. So I do think that vacuuming is a good thing.

Good call on adding more media to the filter. That is a fairly small filter for your tank, so you might eventually want to upgrade, but it sounds like you suspect this. Just don't let the fish store talk you into replacing your media. It does not need to be replaced, just rinse it in old tank water when it gets gunky.

It sounds like you are really on the right track. We will be here to help you every step of the way!

 

[Fishperson]

I'm not a pleco expert either but he and the mollies will get too large for your tank. What are you testing with?

Once you are cycled you will have lots of great choices to stock your tank with. I really recommend chili rasboras, celestial pearl danios, and orange chela danios. Take a look at some videos or pictures of them, and tell me what you think.

 

[librarygirl]

Hi and welcome!

Unfortunately for a cycling 10 gal you're already overstocked; the pleco doesn't really belong in a 10 gal at all and it's just adding to the ammonia problem. If you can't upgrade tank size ASAP I would return the pleco.

Your filtration could be better, particularly with the pleco in there. I would upgrade to an Aqueon 20 at least. Again though, the pleco is going to be an issue long-term in a 10 gal.

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? If not I would do so; it's possible that your tap contains some ammonia already.

While a tank is cycling with fish you really need to be doing more water changes than once per week. Any time ammonia and/or nitrite is over .25, you should do a water change. Here are two guides if you haven't seen them yet:

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium - Aquarium Advice

 

[NinjaTetra]

.2 is the highest you should ever see your ammonia... Especially in the higher ph, it can permanently damage the gills. Just be careful, it sounds like u have done a really good job. If you can, try getting a really small sponge filter and bubbler, if you do we can tell u how to set it up. It is great for bacterial growth, and also oxygenates the water. Another thing- unless you are pulling your fish off of a medication, dont use carbon filters. They destroy nutrients for plants, and leave less room for bacteria. Almost any lfs carries large spongy things that u can cut into the right size

 

[tnfinfan]

The pleco should be in a 30, minimum. Really, the molly should, too. They are active swimmers, big feeders/poopers, and even if you got a small one, be aware that they will rapidly grow to 4". If you want multiple fish, you should get ones that stay small for a 10. Think shrimp for the bottom and a small species of tetra or guppies for the middle. So, I'd either get a bigger tank to suit your preferences in fish or limit your stocking to the two you have now and improve filtration with the plan to upgrade your tank before getting any more fish. You'll also need to be prepared for daily water changes and heavy use of Prime until your bacteria establish and then weekly.

 

[RightTurnClyde]

Thank you everyone! Yeah, I know my pleco will soon outgrow the tank and was probably a bad choice to begin with. He is only 2 inches long right now. He's so cool though. I fed him zucchini for the first time last night and he and the molly both went crazy for it. I took it out after just a couple hours because I didn't want it to foul up my water any more that it already is.

Knowing what I know now, I would do so many things differently. This whole thing started out as a tank for my 7 year old daughter because she wanted fish. But I guess we were imagining the days when you would bring home a goldfish from the fair and stick him in a bowl and just change the water every now and then. Since then, obviously, I've gotten really into it and learned a lot.

I'll start changing the water more often, since that seems to be the consensus.

I've already been perusing Craigslist for a 30 gallon and a stand. I might need to sell the wife on it as we don't have much space. In the meantime, I'll look into the other filter that was mentioned. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of carbon in a filter all the time. Does it really hinder the growth of the BB?

 

[RightTurnClyde]

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? If not I would do so; it's possible that your tap contains some ammonia already.

Holy cow! Thank you for this suggestion. I tested for ammonia on water straight out of my tap and it was also approaching 1 PPM. So... Every time I do a water change, I'm adding ammonia water? How the heck do I remedy this? I'm not sure I'm willing to buy special water just to put in my aquarium.

To me, this says that my ammonia isn't actually getting any worse even a week after a water change. BTW, I'm using the yellow and blue box API Ammonia test that you see in all the stores.

Also, I just did another 40% water change (before I did the tap water test.)

 

[Fishperson]

No, carbon doesn't hinder BB growth at all. And you should use prime if your ammonia is that high.

 

[robbyno22]

I have the same problem... I just bought some in-filter ammonia absorber until I can upgrade my filter and filter media. Once you're nitrates are at 0, I would only change as much water each week as you lose when you do a gravel vac. That combined with a good water conditioner that helps remove ammonia should be fine . Your story sounds a lot like mine!


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[RightTurnClyde]

Thanks again. This is a great forum.

Another question:

If you were stuck with my 10 gallon tank, what would be your ideal filter? Ideally with great bio capabilities and very quiet.

 

[cfosgate]

Thanks again. This is a great forum.



Another question:



If you were stuck with my 10 gallon tank, what would be your ideal filter? Ideally with great bio capabilities and very quiet.

I use sponge filters in all my tanks and they handle pretty large bio loads and keep my water crystal clear. The only sound they make is from the bubbles rising to the top of the tank.

When using a HOB I especially like the Aquaclear because it has room for sponges and other bio media rather than replaceable filter cartridges.

 

[Fishperson]

I personally found a Fluval 105 for cheap, it is a great, quality, filter that often costs $$$, but I found one used on ebay for $55! So I would recommend that! But if not, an AC20 like mentioned above would be really nice. And if you want stocking advice...

 

[threnjen]

Aquaclear 20 or Aquaclear 30. I have an Aquaclear 30 on my 10g and I like it a lot.

 

[RightTurnClyde]

Hmm... those Aquaclears do seem like they would do a better job. I just jumped on Amazon to try and cancel an order of replacement cartridges for my Aqueon. So if that is successful, I think I might go ahead and order the Aquaclear 20 or 30. At least I have some media already in my existing filter that I can transfer to the new one so hopefully I won't be set back too far in the cycle.

Anyone know how their noise compares to the Aquaclear Quietflows? I'm not sure I want the waterfall noise. Although I prefer the gentle sound of water to a vibrating motor. I've learned the "vaseline on the impeller shaft" trick and that seems to have helped the Aqueon a bit.

 

[threnjen]

My Aquaclear 30 is completely silent. I literally walk over sometimes to check that it's on (it always is)

 

[Fresh2o]

AquaClear HOBs are pretty quiet, especially if you keep the water level high. I cut a short piece of the plastic strip that comes with the hinged glass tops and placed it on the lip of the HOB filter. It acts as a ramp and reduces any splashing and noise.
A few years back I also had 1.0 ppm ammonia straight from the tap. Fortunately the filter was cycled and could handle the extra ammonia. The conditions with the tap water might be temporary; your water treatment facility might be increasing the amount of chloramines in response to an increase in something they monitor.

 

[RightTurnClyde]

A few years back I also had 1.0 ppm ammonia straight from the tap. Fortunately the filter was cycled and could handle the extra ammonia. The conditions with the tap water might be temporary; your water treatment facility might be increasing the amount of chloramines in response to an increase in something they monitor.

Thanks. Yes, I read another long thread here about how chloramines are what gives the ammonia reading on the test. So while it's not ideal, it sounds like if I keep up with the Prime and water changes, it should at least keep the toxicity down until I get cycled.

 

[Alan79]

I may have read something about Pothos vine using Ammonia before it uses Nitrates and nitrites as food. Maybe you could go and buy some Pothos vine and just stick the roots in your tank while you are cycling to consume some of the excess ammonia.

Edit. You could also pre filter your WC water with it by leaving it in a bucket with some Pothos for a day for two before adding it to the tank. The positive thing about all this is that you could cycle without buying Ammonia.

 

[RightTurnClyde]

Today's update: I picked up an Aquaclear 30. Apparently it's now packaged under the Fluval brand. I got it all rinsed and installed and added another dose of Prime. I went ahead and put Vaseline on the impeller shaft and around the outside of the base. Seems to be fairly quiet. I can't hear the water splashing at all and the pump noise is maybe a little smoother than the Aqueon. The current is definitely stronger. I hope it's not freaking out the fish.

My only concern is that the return flow is so smooth that there are almost no bubbles being produced. Is this something I need to worry about as far as oxygenation?