Benefits of CO2?

[coralbandit]

All 3 must be balanced.
Most who have already posted have learned or are learning to recognize the issues.
You won't get away for long with high light ,ferts and no CO2 IMO...
But it is a learning process. You need the right equipment.
It is important IMO not to have equipment be a possible issue...

 

[Brookster123]

The higher the lighting the harder it is to obtain a balance. If you do not go high light you do not need co2. You can do whatever you want man.. it's your tank.. it's a fact that a carbon source will be needed or the algae will out compete your plants. I've tried the high light with no co2 and it was a disaster. I'm trying to spare you the anguish but something tells me you're not quite getting it??

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[abw0004]

The higher the lighting the harder it is to obtain a balance. If you do not go high light you do not need co2. You can do whatever you want man.. it's your tank.. it's a fact that a carbon source will be needed or the algae will out compete your plants. I've tried the high light with no co2 and it was a disaster. I'm trying to spare you the anguish but something tells me you're not quite getting it??

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I just have gotten conflicting information from this board, articles, and LFS's really. So I guess you could say I am confused. I am getting mixed information on whether CO2 will lower algae, increase it, or not affect it.

I am also getting conflicting information on how hard it is to deal with CO2 and keep the correct balance. At the beginning you said CO2 was easy to do, and then you reversed and said it can be pretty hard finding and keeping the balance.

Another worry of mine with with my GBR's, I need the water between 80-82 degrees. With that temperature, oxygen is lower. If I add CO2, I worry that will create an issue on it's own.

 

[flchamp89]

Co2 is not hard per se. Depending on the tank it can take a little time to get everything balanced. If your high par management of nutrients with your co2 is more difficult as things can get ugly much quicker. If your gonna run high par you need be on your game and you need co2--
I know nothing about rams so cant help ya there.

 

[Brookster123]

I just have gotten conflicting information from this board, articles, and LFS's really. So I guess you could say I am confused. I am getting mixed information on whether CO2 will lower algae, increase it, or not affect it.

I am also getting conflicting information on how hard it is to deal with CO2 and keep the correct balance. At the beginning you said CO2 was easy to do, and then you reversed and said it can be pretty hard finding and keeping the balance.

Another worry of mine with with my GBR's, I need the water between 80-82 degrees. With that temperature, oxygen is lower. If I add CO2, I worry that will create an issue on it's own.

Disregard everything the lfs tells you, they're for profit first and foremost. Co2 itself is easy, I did say that, you get a can of gas and a regulator, set it all up and run, it was easy for me anyways, I do not know your level of handiness?? The balance between lighting, ferts and co2 is the tricky part. All of them by them selves are simple. Turn the light on.. easy.. dump ferts in the tank...easy.. it's getting all three of those variable to work together. I'm trying to set you up for success with all three variables. 2 without the 3 is not the easy way. If you keep the light at 70% , run 4 bubbles a second of xo2 and dose per instructions off pps pro with added potassium and phosphate??You'll be doing pretty good me thinks. Granted I'm just some dude on the board so.... take it or leave it

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[Arthur75]

In the 1970s we did not use CO2, The plants all grew well.
When I started again I did not want to believe that it was not possible anymore.
I tried a lot, but it was too low carbonate hardness. This was artificially lowered to spare the pipelines.
A certain quantity of carbonic acid belongs to every carbonate hardness.
It was too little.
I have decided to add CO2. With a Sodastream.
For this I bought a long-term set.
As an example, a 100l basin. Every morning at the beginning of the light 4 Sodastream bottles. Each pressed 5 times. After 1 hour I had 20 mg / l CO2.
The vegetation was very strong. The thread algae in Javamoos went back. I had only a little phosphate and nitrate. All good. But the pressure bottle was empty after two months. The exchange cost 9 €.
I tried with daily 3 bottles. Since I only come to 12.5 mg / l.
But the growth is still good, and the bottle is enough for 3 months.
The advantage is that I can also feed the other pools with CO2.
But it makes some work every morning.
Better would be a multipurpose system, for all pools.

 

[abw0004]

I am just thinking out all of my options here. How does Seachem Flourish Excel match up? Is it a good alternative to CO2 tanks?

 

[flchamp89]

Apples and oranges. That a liquid macro with some micros in it vs co2. But you may want to add it too your shopping cart with your new light.

Im a fan of it. More expensive than dry. Easy to use and in smaller tanks will last awhile. I use a several seachem products and overall happy. Ive wanted to switch to pps but since im happy im staying put. Most will recommend pps or ei.

Oops thought you said comp...sorry

 

[Brookster123]

I am just thinking out all of my options here. How does Seachem Flourish Excel match up? Is it a good alternative to CO2 tanks?

It helps but it's not a replacement, I dose it with the co2. If you go that route get a gallon of metricide14 off amazon. It's 2x as strong and half the price.

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[flchamp89]

Yes I use it at recommended rates with my co2 as well.

 

[abw0004]

So it is not a potential replacement? I thought it carried carbon in it, no?

 

[flchamp89]

It does but carbon vs co2. Is a mustang vs viper. Excel shines in low light setups. More par and it wont be as effective.

 

[PerfectDepth]

I just have gotten conflicting information from this board, articles, and LFS's really. So I guess you could say I am confused. I am getting mixed information on whether CO2 will lower algae, increase it, or not affect it.

I am also getting conflicting information on how hard it is to deal with CO2 and keep the correct balance. At the beginning you said CO2 was easy to do, and then you reversed and said it can be pretty hard finding and keeping the balance.

Another worry of mine with with my GBR's, I need the water between 80-82 degrees. With that temperature, oxygen is lower. If I add CO2, I worry that will create an issue on it's own.

Think of it this way... Plants are fussy, but algae is not fussy in the slightest bit. Algae couldn't care less about co2 and nutrient levels, just give it some light and it will somehow survive by scavenging whatever tiny amounts of nutrients and carbon happen to be available.

A tank that has plenty of plants growing at full health will have very little algae, even with high light. Whenever there is poor growth, that is when algae will start to take over. More light means faster growth, so the amount of light is really what determines the amount of nutrients and carbon that are required to avoid algae by providing for healthy growth.

A tank with higher lighting but no plants, or simply not enough plants to make use of the available energy (light), will be nothing but an algae farm even if there is plenty of co2.

 

[nirbhao]

At this point, I'm not sure what you're still asking. Many, many, many people keep blue rams at 82° F with CO2. I did. The reason things didn't work out was because of something I did wrong, but before that, things were very good.

If anything, your rams will appreciate the decrease in pH.

By the way, if you aren't adding CO2, measure your pH each day between water changes. You will notice it rise as your plants use all of the CO2 in the water.

My daughter has this dinosaur bubbler. It's adorable, actually. It runs atmosphere for 15 minutes every two hours. It's the only reason we have an airline that isn't CO2.

I am very nervous about the amount of CO2 I'm adding, but I am pushing my comfort zone right now because I notice an IMMEDIATE difference on algae when there's enough CO2. If I turn the CO2 and lights on at the same time, the filter will slow from all the gunk it's sucking up. Give it an hour, flow is great all day long.

Your plants will love it. Plants really can't get too much CO2. I mean, they can, but it's really unlikely that you're going to make that happen.

The Barr report has some good information about getting started with CO2. There's a primer and an outright list of part numbers if you're building things yourself.

I *lurb* The Barr report guides.

So the benefits of CO2 are
1. reduced algae
2 happy plants that you put there on purpose
3. balancing that fancy new light you have coming

Excel isn't CO2. That's just all there is to it. Yes, it gives plants some carbon to work with. No, it is not CO2.

 

[abw0004]

Thank you to everyone for the advice. I do agree I need to do something. I was asking about the temperature, because I know after 80 degrees, the oxygen levels drop. So if you add CO2, would that not exacerbate the problem of low oxygen. But I think I am good there.

My last question is, how does the increase in CO2 lower algae? Algae also needs CO2 to thrive as well, so how does the CO2 reduce algae when that is something algae needs too. Yes I know it helps the plants compete, but it helps algae compete as well.

 

[PerfectDepth]

Thank you to everyone for the advice. I do agree I need to do something. I was asking about the temperature, because I know after 80 degrees, the oxygen levels drop. So if you add CO2, would that not exacerbate the problem of low oxygen. But I think I am good there.

co2 doesn't displace oxygen, or drive it out of the water. With higher temps you'll need sufficient surface agitation regardless of co2 concentration. On the other hand, a higher oxygen concentration does help fish to tolerate a higher co2 concentration than they otherwise could at a lower oxygen level.

My last question is, how does the increase in CO2 lower algae?

It doesn't. Healthy plant growth does, and plants won't be healthy if they are carbon deficient.

Algae also needs CO2 to thrive as well, so how does the CO2 reduce algae when that is something algae needs too. Yes I know it helps the plants compete, but it helps algae compete as well.

Algae, for whatever reason, just doesn't attempt to compete with healthy plants.

EDIT: A good approach is to think of your light level as the gas pedal that determines how fast plants/algae will grow. A certain total amount of light energy is available, and if the plants are not making use of this amount of energy due to poor health or just not enough plants in general, then algae will make use of that light energy instead.

There will always be some algae somewhere, such as on the glass, equipment, hardscape, mostly in areas that are not as shaded. A good tank maintenance routine will keep the accumulation to a minimum. Regular water changes, removing decaying plant material, keeping filters clean and flowing at full rate, making sure there is sufficient surface agitation for gas exchange and so on

 

[Delapool]

Just to add some thoughts - over time I've done low light, high light / no CO2 and high light / high CO2.

I've done / seen nice tanks in low light.

CO2 from what I can see will help any tank. Its just another fert. It's a little confusing at first but like canister filters, once you get one done, it's all straight forward. Drop checkers, bubble counters and if really keen - ph probes all help control.

Liquid carbon imo is not a substitute for injected carbon. I'd rate it a 4, CO2 10 and neither 0. It's a daily dose one-off whereas CO2 is constant injection roughly matching light duration. It is useful for a low-level algaecide as well and I still dose it with CO2 injection.

Ferts are also fairly easy. A nitrate and phosphate test kit I find useful. I've run high phosphate and no increase in algae (light intensity/duration is the issue).

Substrate - worth looking into different types. Over time I've tried to move away from just straight gravel and to ones that are better for plants.

Lights - a timer and dimmer I find useful. It seems weird to have half or a quarter of an expensive light turned off but better to have moderate light / moderate growth then high light / high growth and greater chance of issues.

I guess finally plants are a challenge. There are easy ones to hard ones and ones that will totally hate your tank. I've managed to get low light / low CO2 and high light / high CO2 to work but high light / no CO2 was just a constant struggle.

 

[abw0004]

How many hours a day did you keep your lights on?

 

[Delapool]

How many hours a day did you keep your lights on?

For this tank I started at 7 and at the moment at 8.5hrs I think. Split light period - really only so I can see tank at morning and night.

It's borderline on light. I have also increased light intensity until I get some green algae on glass but get better growth at substrate.

So kind of started at lower light period and duration, then just worked up. Usually I'll make a change and just give it several weeks to a month to see what happens.

As the tank is 4ft across I run a CO2 diffuser (with own power head) on either side of tank (plus an internal filter to push water around). Adding the second CO2 diffuser has helped me a lot as the first one was at the limit of what it could do.

 

[schpanky]

I have a low light tank with a C02 system (C02 is the best choice you can make with any planted tank). I keep a Ram in the tank too...super healthy BTW.

I keep a Finnex light on a lower setting about 5-6hours daily. I keep the C02 on for 6-7 hours a day. The C02 has completely saved my tank. I was using Glut before. I don't miss it.

I got a 30lb (giant) C02 tank and hooked it up last May, and I haven't touched it since then, and it's still going beautifully. It's almost completely maintenance free and not even close to empty yet! You should just do it!!!