Cannibalism or not?

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Sarah E

Aquarium Advice Activist
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Oct 18, 2011
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150
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New England
I am breeding Feeder Guppies for my pet snake. I've been looking into a few other breeds of freshwater wish to put in with my feeder guppies that would not eat them! I've read that I can put a few fancy guppies in and something about Neon Tetras.... are there any other breeds I could possibly put in the same (20 Gallon) tank as my feeders that would not eat them all?
 
Do you mean something that will not eat the baby guppies? In that case you are going to be pretty restricted - not sure about neons but in any case I would make sure to provide plenty of cover and put a sponge over the filter intake if you have a filter with one.
 
I agree with newfound. After all, guppies eat their own babies all the time. But, Endler's livebearers would be an option. They will hybridize with the guppies, but seem to eat the fry less. Another option would be corys catfish of some sort. I have never had them eat my fry (that I know of). Neons are pretty small, so they would eat fry, but not once the fry get a bit of size on them. Fancy guppies do eat fry. I have breeding fancies and I only ever get a couple of fry that live through the adults appetites. I also agree that lots of plant cover (real or fake) will help more fry survive to get enough to be snake food.
 
Fish eating the fry is a big part of it, but I've also been wondering if there are certain breeds that would eat the actual adult feeders....

I have a few plants, but could not find any Java moss or Hornwort, in fact, when I asked the pet store if they owned any, they told me they had never heard of either of them! So I got 3 plants with a bunch of leaves, then I had one more plant with a bunch of leaves.

What type of fake plants would you have to keep the fry safe? Does it need to be super thick covering?
 
Fish eating the fry is a big part of it, but I've also been wondering if there are certain breeds that would eat the actual adult feeders....

I have a few plants, but could not find any Java moss or Hornwort, in fact, when I asked the pet store if they owned any, they told me they had never heard of either of them! So I got 3 plants with a bunch of leaves, then I had one more plant with a bunch of leaves.

What type of fake plants would you have to keep the fry safe? Does it need to be super thick covering?
Yes, some fish would eat the adults. In general, many fish will eat any fish that can fit in its mouth. I still think Endler's would be the safest since they are small and don't usually eat their fry.
Plant cover just needs to have a place so the aultd can't see the fry. Many petstores have floating or sinking plastic grass that the adults can't fit into but the fry can. Truthfully, with guppies, the more cover the better since they love to eat fry. But, if you are putting the fry into breeding nets anyway, you don't have to worry about it as much.
 
The Endler's are beautiful, but I'm a little hesitant to buy them, because I'm not sure about the cross-breeding for the sake of the snake.... because feeder guppies are one of the few fish that have the less probability of poisoning him. :ermm:
 
The Endler's are beautiful, but I'm a little hesitant to buy them, because I'm not sure about the cross-breeding for the sake of the snake.... because feeder guppies are one of the few fish that have the less probability of poisoning him. :ermm:
Endlers are commonly sold as feeder guppies. They are snake safe. Most Endler's you will find are hybrids. You can usually find a few cheap ones in the feeder guppy tanks at petstores. They do not have thiaminase.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by 'poisoning' the snake. Endlers and guppies are extremely closely related, some even argue that they are the same species just locality variants.
Some snakes like garters and ribbon snakes like to eat fish, but feeder goldies, fathead minnows, and others have thiaminase with prevents the snake from absorbing vitamin b1 (thiamine) and so they can die from eating those fish. Smelt have it too as do many catfish.
 
Wow!!! Okay, thank you!

Like absolutangel04 said about "thiaminase". Thiaminase is found in some fish, and is toxic to snakes, which is why they can only eat certain breeds of feeders and fish. I'll look into the Endlers, and see if any of my local stores sell them! :)

They have such thing as sinking plastic grass? How does that work?

Would something like this: http://www.petsrising.com/acatalog/PlasticAquariumPlants17cmSmallImage.jpg work?
 
Wow!!! Okay, thank you!

Like absolutangel04 said about "thiaminase". Thiaminase is found in some fish, and is toxic to snakes, which is why they can only eat certain breeds of feeders and fish. I'll look into the Endlers, and see if any of my local stores sell them! :)

They have such thing as sinking plastic grass? How does that work?

Would something like this: http://www.petsrising.com/acatalog/PlasticAquariumPlants17cmSmallImage.jpg work?
I have seen them in PetCo and other chains as well as at my lfs. Its just little plastic grass squares with a weighted base. The fry can sink in between the grass blades and not get eaten. :)
 
Ahhh, like this?
fluval-chi-hair-grass-plastic-aquarium-plant-3-5-length-x-3-5-width-x~17844592.jpg
 
Oh that's neat, learn something new every day, lol.
Yep. :) I don't know if thiaminase affects any other animals besides snakes though. I should look into that... I just know about snakes since fish are a common food for finicky snakes, especially wild-caught snakes, garters, ribbon snakes, and various water snakes.
Oh, and salmonids don't have it either. :)
 
I have plenty of endlers and Wild guppies, but no way am i going to give them up as food for a snake, but anything (like a goldfish) that can get it into its mouth (about 3in long or bigger) can and will eat them. Endlers and wild type guppies, or even well fed well bred fancies should not eat their young to the extent that if they did, the species would not survive, so it is usually not a problem, if they are well fed. but i do not reccomend using endlers livebearers as feeders, they are somewhat valuable. Feeders are diffrent from wild guppies and they are full of parasites and very mal-nourished. If you really want some nice "feeder" guppies i can hook you up, but do not mix them with the endlers. and use the males for food for the snake, the females are just bably factories.
 
ohh, and NO, these little guys dont canniblize like the big fancy tails, and they have about 5-15 fry every 21 days (28 days for fancies) Feeders will just die off, if you are serious about breeding wild-type guppies or endlers, PM me.
 
So... Would it be healthy to feed the wild guppies to the snake? He's only a baby, and since he's now tame.... people warn against feeding wild, because they can have different parasites and diseases.... but what I think I got from your post, was that the feeder guppies are the ones full of parasites.

I know they're mal-nourished, which is why you supplement with what they're missing..... are the wild guppies more nutritious?
 
With feeders its best to quarantine them a few weeks and feed them high quality foods. Once they breed for you its less of a concern since you know exactly what kind of conditions they were subjected to.
 
I agree with jeta. Also, I think the OP said she was getting some spare fish from her sibling or a friend or somthing, so she should already know what conditions they were in. But, any live food purchased form a store should be quarantined for awhile. Only select strains of Endler's are qualuable. The common black bar Ender's are not. It is always sort of a guess what actual strains are called feeder guppies in the store. I see Endler's in the feeder guppy all the time, though I am guessing they are hybrids. The important part is that these species will not hurt the snake, and as long as fish were quarantined and cared for after purchase, IMO they should be fine for snake food.
 
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