Clear poop, bad?

[jlk]

Getting meds internally is always a best option for dealing with internal issues. Treating the water is the second best option & the only option if they are not eating. I hope your fish feel better soon! Keep us posted!!

 

[jetajockey]

Jungle parasite clear has metro and prazi in it if you aren't going the medicated flake route. The other bonus is its only a few bucks and available at most lfs and Walmart.

Its not as effective as flake but I use it on new arrivals and it has worked well.

 

[bs6749]

This is where you need to separate the domestically raised fish from the wild caught ones. If you were to take a wild discus and put him in 8.4 water, if he didn't die from the shock he would lower the the PH to a more natural level. I've seen this multiple times in my Discus breeding room. My partner tried to adjust the fish to Florida's alkeline water but the fish made it acidic within 48 hours. It is possible that many generations later, the domestically raised Discus don't do this anymore. Keeping an aquarium at a neutral PH gives the fish that are being raised in each extreme the ability to coexist with little harm to each other.
Your experience may be coming from non wild specimens and I don't doubt that you have had success. I was addressing this one tank in this one situation.

You completely missed my point, and nowhere did I recommend keeping wild caught fish in water parameters that don't match the conditions that they are used to in the wild, which is what you are hinting with your reply. Using only one example and hoping you would see the benefit of a non-neutral pH, I said that: Domestically bred discus can thrive in a pH anywhere from 5.0-8.5. If I had a choice, I would keep the water for them acidic because many microorganisms do not grow around or below a pH of 5.5 and the low pH also helps to convert ammonia to ammonium ion (as a result of the free hydronium ions in solution) and this means that ammonia toxicity is of little worry in an acidic environment because ammonia will not be present in a harmful state. An acidic environment also makes it easier to rear fry for these same reasons.

I provided a basis for my reasoning that is backed by microbiology principles, and simple chemistry. Your statement about "a pH of 7.0 is recommended" has absolutely no basis on which it stands. Saying simply that "it allows fish from both extremes to adjust" is nonsense. Fish will adjust to pH changes over time. My proof...let's keep it consistent with one example...wild discus becoming domesticated. They have adjusted from a pH of 5.0 in many cases to as high as 9.0 from one hobbyist that I know that keeps them in liquid rock. This has been accomplished by years of domesticated breeding, though I've read about wild discus being bred in captivity in "wild conditions" and the fry being grown out in an alkaline pH with high levels of calcium and magnesium, so it needn't necessarily be done through many generations.

So are you suggesting that the fish lowered the pH of the tank? This is what it sounds like to me and most likely to others reading as well. Discus, and no other fish that I am aware of, are capable of altering the pH of their surroundings to ensure their survival. Please explain what you mean.

 

[bs6749]

Gboy66 - your fish doesn't look constipated to me as I don't see any signs of bloating or roundness of the belly. I actually think the opposite...your fish appears to be thin in my opinion.

 

[Andy Sager]

I understand your point but...

You completely missed my point, and nowhere did I recommend keeping wild caught fish in water parameters that don't match the conditions that they are used to in the wild, which is what you are hinting with your reply. Using only one example and hoping you would see the benefit of a non-neutral pH, I said that: Domestically bred discus can thrive in a pH anywhere from 5.0-8.5. If I had a choice, I would keep the water for them acidic because many microorganisms do not grow around or below a pH of 5.5 and the low pH also helps to convert ammonia to ammonium ion (as a result of the free hydronium ions in solution) and this means that ammonia toxicity is of little worry in an acidic environment because ammonia will not be present in a harmful state. An acidic environment also makes it easier to rear fry for these same reasons.

I provided a basis for my reasoning that is backed by microbiology principles, and simple chemistry. Your statement about "a pH of 7.0 is recommended" has absolutely no basis on which it stands. Saying simply that "it allows fish from both extremes to adjust" is nonsense. Fish will adjust to pH changes over time. My proof...let's keep it consistent with one example...wild discus becoming domesticated. They have adjusted from a pH of 5.0 in many cases to as high as 9.0 from one hobbyist that I know that keeps them in liquid rock. This has been accomplished by years of domesticated breeding, though I've read about wild discus being bred in captivity in "wild conditions" and the fry being grown out in an alkaline pH with high levels of calcium and magnesium, so it needn't necessarily be done through many generations.

So are you suggesting that the fish lowered the pH of the tank? This is what it sounds like to me and most likely to others reading as well. Discus, and no other fish that I am aware of, are capable of altering the pH of their surroundings to ensure their survival. Please explain what you mean.

...It was the darndest thing. In our warehouse, we used the same water source for all of our fish. I had 50 pairs of Angelfish and 10 pairs of WILD Discus amongst the other fish we were breeding, all set up with sponge filters in bare tanks with slates for spawning and nothing else in the tanks. These were all separate tanks not centralized systems. The discus were in 50 gal tanks and the angels in 10 gals. The PH was 7.4 (if I remember correctly, it was back in the 80s) and the water was soft ( we were in a city that got it's water from another county so it wasn't that hard alkeline water that FL is famous for. Tap water in the neighboring city was 8.0) In a 48 hour span after a water change (usually a 30 % change over a few hours), our angels and other fish tanks all had maintained that 7.4 PH but the discus tanks (all of them) would be down in the lower 6s. You explain why it only happened to the discus tanks. They were in the same area as the other fish with the same water, same food, same temps, same air compressor. The water tested 7.4 after the water change was completed. The only explanation we could come up with was that the fish themselves were altering the ph. These were all wild fish not tank raised. Mostly Peruvian Blues, Tefe Greens and Blue Heckles. Unfortunately, my mentor had already died by the time this had happened so I couldn't get his opinion and I stumped the local scientists from the University of Miami marine school. They were the ones who suggested that it HAD to be the fish themselves that were altering the PH because nothing else made sense. They did a gaschromatograph and saw no evidense of oxygen depletion. Can you explain it?

 

[Gboy66]

Gboy66 - your fish doesn't look constipated to me as I don't see any signs of bloating or roundness of the belly. I actually think the opposite...your fish appears to be thin in my opinion.

Ok, so would this indicate the internal parasite? Im going to try and pick up jungle parisite remover tomorrow

 

[jlk]

Yes, the strange poop, not eating & overall thinness are possible indicators of an internal parasite or an internal infection- we cant specifically ID which is the case the case here without a lab though. Keep us posted!

 

[Gboy66]

Yes, the strange poop, not eating & overall thinness are possible indicators of an internal parasite or an internal infection- we cant specifically ID which is the case the case here without a lab though. Keep us posted!

No poop! Im thinking parasite! I need to get this jungle med today, this is getting bad.

 

[Gboy66]

My mom just texted me.... GABRIELS POOPING!!!

 

[bs6749]

Good news it seems. It would be nice to try and see what the excrement looks lke to help identify the cause.

 

[Andy Sager]

Pooping...

My mom just texted me.... GABRIELS POOPING!!!

Break out the TP!!!
It would be advisable, if possible, to get a sample and look at it to see if it is in fact a worm. You'll become a poopologist

 

[Gboy66]

Break out the TP!!!
It would be advisable, if possible, to get a sample and look at it to see if it is in fact a worm. You'll become a poopologist

Hahah! I wish i could find it! He dropped!

 

[Gboy66]

Ok, more poop from mr. Gabriel this morning!

It looks clear/white with little segments in it...worms?

 

[jlk]

Get those meds!

 

[Gboy66]

Get those meds!

Does it mean worms?!

I have been so busy!! This is terrible. I feel badly but i cant help it. Thankfully, after school today ill have a 1:30 window where i can get some meds, and other sw items

 

[jlk]

This poop indicates a possible internal parasite. I would inspect it closely to see if you can see any worms in it, too.

 

[Gboy66]

This poop indicates a possible internal parasite. I would inspect it closely to see if you can see any worms in it, too.

How should i inspect it? Take it out?

Will this jungle parasite do the trick? Should i combine that treatment with an epsom salt bath every day?

 

[jlk]

Yep! If its clear/white, place it on something black so you can clearly see it. A magnifying glass would help too. The jungle meds should work fine! An epsom salt bath every day probably isnt necessary unless they stop pooping again. Use your judgement here!

 

[Gboy66]

Yep! If its clear/white, place it on something black so you can clearly see it. A magnifying glass would help too. The jungle meds should work fine! An epsom salt bath every day probably isnt necessary unless they stop pooping again. Use your judgement here!

Awesome thank you will it move if its a worm?

 

[Alyxx]

Between the Gabriel's pooping text, the Grant farted sign, and letting you guys set up a saltwater tank your mom seems pretty cool! I'm happy to hear there's at least a small sign of improvement. Hopefully they will take to the dewormer and get better! Angelfish are wonderful fish, I miss mine.