Constipated or Dropsy?

[T-Rexx]

My honey sunset gourami has never had normal poops. I noticed through out its life its always been a stringy white instead of brown like my other fish. its about almost a year old. I do fasts with my tank once every other week but it never changed. just a couple days ago I noticed it stopped eating. and then it started bloating. and today I noticed it has the "pine cone effect". Is there something I could do?

 

[mohican]

Sounds like dropsy. I put him in a quarantine tank and treat. You should be able to get medications at your LFS or petsmart even. Good luck.

 

[T-Rexx]

well I did a little more research and i bet its dropsy... The other honey gourami I had also died from this same thing. I took out that gourami though and put him into a qt tank for him only to die months later. ): I hear dropsy can spread through out the same fish species? My water quality seems to be fine. same as usual. I think it would be a good idea to do a 50% water change and replace some filters after I take out the fish and put him down ):

 

[T-Rexx]

Sounds like dropsy. I put him in a quarantine tank and treat. You should be able to get medications at your LFS or petsmart even. Good luck.

Thanks for responding! Ive read that once it looks like a pine cone it cant be treated anymore. was that incorrect? because if i can save him I will try my best! what kind of medication should i get? any recommendations?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

What is your pwc and cleaning maintenance schedule like? How many fish do you have in what size tank? Dropsy usually occurs when fish are weakened due to poor water conditions and infrequent pwc's. When they get weakened, they become susceptible to the bacteria that causes it.

 

[mohican]

I've never heard of the once pine-cone takes place it can't be treated part but it could be true. Look up Maracyn Plus or API's Furan 2. Always quarantine and treat the fish different than the tank. Separating the 2 will give you a better idea if its the fish itself or the entire tank parameters. Good luck.

 

[T-Rexx]

What is your pwc and cleaning maintenance schedule like? How many fish do you have in what size tank? Dropsy usually occurs when fish are weakened due to poor water conditions and infrequent pwc's. When they get weakened, they become susceptible to the bacteria that causes it.

I have a 60 gallon tank thats fully stocked. I have 68 gallons worth of fish in the tank once theyre full grown (which they arent yet) I do 15-20% water changes weekly to every other week. when I do that i usually take a vaccume and clean up what the siphon couldnt on the bottom of the tank. There is a brown algae that has been in my tank for a long time but doesnt see to go away. but people have told me its nothing to be concerned about.
Ph-8.0 & The ammonia nitrates and nitrites are all at 0 the temp is at 80

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

How long has the tank been up and running? I think there should be a trace of nitrates in your results giving an indication that the benificial bacteria is converting the ammonia and nitrites. Everything else you're doing sounds right to me in terms of pwc and cleaning. But your disclosure of saying your fish aren't fully grown tells me that your tank is fairly new. Did you cycle your tank prior to adding in your fish or are g you doing the fish-in cycling?

 

[T-Rexx]

How long has the tank been up and running? I think there should be a trace of nitrates in your results giving an indication that the benificial bacteria is converting the ammonia and nitrites. Everything else you're doing sounds right to me in terms of pwc and cleaning. But your disclosure of saying your fish aren't fully grown tells me that your tank is fairly new. Did you cycle your tank prior to adding in your fish or are g you doing the fish-in cycling?

I had a 36 gallon up a year ago. in august I moved my fish to a 60 gallon with the same bio wheel filters and water. but for some reason my tank has never been able to keep fish a live for a long period of time. some have lived really long but not many! longest a live have been my killie and my black skirts. Someone told me it was because of the way I was acclimating my fish into the water. it made their immune systems week? so ive tried acclimating them different and they seemed to have taken much better but i dunno! maybe its because of my ph? or the brown weird algae stuff? I can't figure out what is going on. would temperature effect that? I had my temp set relatively high becuase my fish got ick a few times and when I lowered my temp my fish would get sick again. so Ive been SLOWLY taking it down but its taking several months.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Well you moved from a smaller tank to a larger one with the same filter. Hopefully the filter is rated for a much larger tank from the get-go? You could be under-filtered right now and it's always better to over-filter than under.. You might want to consider adding another filter and run two of them if that's the case.

I don't think it's an acclimating thing either. You'll usually see signs of stress not too long after you've acclimated new fish if it was done incorrectly and too abruptly. Once the fish has been introduced to your tank and survives the first few days or so, you'll be okay given that everything else, other than acclimating issues, is okay (i.e. water params.

I usually keep my tanks between 78 - 80F all the time. Been doing so for years now with no issues. So I don't think it's a temp thing either.

I worried about high ph too when I first started keeping fish again. I found out that in most cases, it's not worth messing with unless it's extremly high or low. If your ph is >8.5 then I'd be worried. Mine has been around 7.6 - 7.8 for years. Here was my original post when I was in your shoes...LOL
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/help-with-lowering-ph-levels-advice-please-125996.html

As for the brown weird algae stuff, I'm not too sure on that one. Do you have a picture of it? I don't think it's an issue but I could be wrong. Perhaps someone can chime in on that one with more knowledge and experience. Nonetheless, I'd like to stick around and find out if someone can break the code to your tank issues..

Lastly, have you treated your tank with any meds lately?

 

[mohican]

Ur parameters look good. Using an established filter is good as it will add the biofiltration that you need; looks as tho it is working too. I think if it were the water it would affect more than one fish in the tank. How long have you had the gourami? Maybe the fish was already stressed when introduced into your tank. What other tank mates do you have? I had a hard time keeping gourami's too, pearls specifically. Now I have 2 that seem to live forever and through everything. Unfortunately, fish are so mass produced that keeping them alive is actually hard for us aquarists.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I think if it were the water it would affect more than one fish in the tank.

She mentioned in her earlier post that it happened to her other gourami in which she took it out to die in a QT tank. She also mentioned that "for some reason my tank has never been able to keep fish a live for a long period of time. some have lived really long but not many"... by both accounts, this has happened to more than one fish. So this is not isolated to one fish and therefore a larger problem that is affecting most of the fish.

 

[mohican]

Whats your remedy then??? She has been able to keep fish over a period of time, i.e. tetra's. I had a hard time keeping pearl gourami's, but could keep any other fish. Not all fish are created equal.

 

[T-Rexx]

When I bought my 60 gallon tank it was used. So the person selling it was getting rid of the filter also. It just didnt come with the bio wheels (has 2) so I just took the bio wheel off of the filter I was using for my 36g tank, and put it on my 60g tank filter. then bought an extra bio wheel for the other side. I have noticed though only one bio wheel constantly spins while the other bio wheel only spins occasionally. could that be the issue?

Yea I will go take some pictures right now and upload them. you can really see it on my filter and on a couple plants. Its also grown on past decorations i had in there, but i recently changed them out for real rock. So I'd imagine it's probably growing on the new rocks as well, but they're dark so it would be difficult to tell.

Yea I'm not hoooooorribly concerned about the ph. I was at first but people have told me its better left alone than to be tampered with. changing ph's can make the fish become ill. I did recently (about 2-3 weeks ago) put in a piece of driftwood. it only lowered the ph from 8.2 to 8.0 so it wasnt too bad of a drop.

The only thing I'd have in my tank medication wise is aquarium salt. but I've changed my water a few times since it was put in. I put medication into my 36 gallon when I had it up and running. a fish of mine had pop eye, and it killed more fish than it saved. I will probably never put medication into my tank unless i ABSOLUTELY have to.

 

[T-Rexx]

Ur parameters look good. Using an established filter is good as it will add the biofiltration that you need; looks as tho it is working too. I think if it were the water it would affect more than one fish in the tank. How long have you had the gourami? Maybe the fish was already stressed when introduced into your tank. What other tank mates do you have? I had a hard time keeping gourami's too, pearls specifically. Now I have 2 that seem to live forever and through everything. Unfortunately, fish are so mass produced that keeping them alive is actually hard for us aquarists.

Ive gone through quite a bit. well ALOT (im not gonna lie!) of fish with in the year I started fish keeping. But for some reason angels and rummy nose tetra are the hardest for me to keep alive. Ive been feeding my fish live worms lately and for some reason they seem to be a bit happier. I've had the gourami for a very long time. probably the 3 longest fish Ive had. Had him and 2 other honey sunsets in my 36 gallon when it was up. his tank mates dont bother him at all. its a community tank all except for some angels but they dont bother anyone. they're babies and will be moved into their own tank when they grow larger.

3 Golden Wonder Killie
1 Honey Sunset Gourami
3 Black Skirt Tetra
2 Rummy Nose Tetra
1 Bamboo Shrimp
3 Balloon Pearl Gourami
1 Yellow Angel
2 White Angel
2 Bumblebee Goby
2 African Dwarf Frogs
2 Boesemani Rainbow
1 Ghost shrimp
2 Kuhli Loach

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I don't have the biowheel filters but from what I recall, I think those wheels are suppose to spin in order for the aerobic bacteria to get oxygen to remove ammonia and nitrites. I've read some reviews too that these filters aren't the best because they lack the surface area to host BB. I honestly don't know how effective they are. I personally use Aqua Clear and a Fluval C series. You should research how to resolve your non-spinning wheel issue because I suspect it's not doing its job at filtering your water properly and you're being under-filtered right now. Either that, or replace the whole filter and add in extra bio media (i.e. BioMax).

As for buying a used aquarium, did you take any precautionary measures of sterilizing it before use? By not doing so, you may have inadvertently adopted more than what you bargained for. How about the new rocks you introduced to your tank?

As for your other fish getting popeye coupled with your two gouramis (the latest having dropsy), that is a red flag to me saying that there's some serious poor water quality issues. Both fish ailments are associated to weakened immune systems due to poor water quality. Fish are susceptible to bacterial and other fish diseases when that's the case. I would seriously consider upping your PWC's, gravel vacs, and resolving your filtration issues moving forward.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

3 Golden Wonder Killie
1 Honey Sunset Gourami
3 Black Skirt Tetra
2 Rummy Nose Tetra
1 Bamboo Shrimp
3 Balloon Pearl Gourami
1 Yellow Angel
2 White Angel
2 Bumblebee Goby
2 African Dwarf Frogs
2 Boesemani Rainbow
1 Ghost shrimp
2 Kuhli Loach

I read from your other thread that your 2 ADF's died as well. Not too long after each other too.

 

[T-Rexx]

 

[T-Rexx]

Oh! yea! I forgot to change that i dnt have the frogs anymore. yea I bought them and they both died within a week or so of me putting them in there. someone thinks they died from drowning. Im curious if I stressed them out too much because I moved some plants and rock around and the day after or two they died.

The pop eye happened right after I was done cycling my tank back in april last year. back when I had the 36 gallon up.

as for the rest who have died in between then and now they have just died out of the blue it seems. one day theyll be fine and the next ill find them dead in the tank. that or theyd stop eating and die shortly after. none have had noticeable symptoms like my gouramis had.

As for the tank when I bought it we just rinsed it out with some water and a sponge. and we re did the silicone because it looked like it was redone. and we werent sure if it was done with aquaruim safe silicone.. so we did it with aquarium safe silicone just to be safe.

how does one sterilize? I rinse the rock and drift wood in HOT water for an hour or so before i put them in to make sure there was no dirt or anything on them. other than that I didnt do anything else.

 

[librarygirl]

Looks like diatoms, which is normal in newer tanks but usually goes away with time. What lighting do you have and how long do you keep it on per day? In the meantime you can wipe it off and suck it up with the siphon.

You're correct in that you are fully stocked although there are some potential issues:
--the blackskirts may bother the angels
--the killfish might go after the rummynose
--bumblebee gobys may require brackish water, depending on which type you have
--the blackskirts, rummynose, boesemani and loaches would be happier with 6+ each (although you don't have the room)
--the angels may become aggressive if they pair off and mate
--the honey and pearl gouramis may fight

What filter do you have on the tank? Ideally you'd want at least double the filtration for the tank size, particularly for your stocking. Also are you changing out the filters often? This can cause a mini-cycle which will prevent the tank from fully cycling and the fish would be constantly swimming in toxins which could account for the illnesses. A canister filter might be the best option for a tank that size.

Also for the tank stocking and size, I'd do a 50%-60% water change weekly (either one large one or two smaller ones) with a good dechlorinator like Prime. Clean water does wonders to prevent disease and stabilize things like PH and reduce nitrate and it replenishes the water with minerals that the fish use.

Also with that many fish in the tank you should have nitrate and if the nitrate is reaching over 40 between water changes this could be another reason why the fish are getting sick. What test kit are you using? If it's strips they are inaccurate. If it's the API kit it's either expired or the test isn't being done correctly (it can be finicky). You want to shake and bang both bottles on a hard surface (shake and bang bottle #2 for 30 seconds like the instructions say; there is a reagent powder on the bottom that can get clumped and cause inaccurate readings). Then shake the tube vigorously for 60 seconds and wait 5 minutes for the result.

The fish could also be stressed due to insufficient numbers in the case of the schools and they might be stressed due to aggression between fish when the lights go out which again would contribute to disease. Overcrowding can also cause stress and contribute to disease.

Sorry about your sick fish. I've also read that once the pineconing starts it's very difficult to treat.