Cycling.. Need Help.

[ChristinaE12]

and a couple questions.. I read an article on here about cycling and was left confuzzled.

Basically, I just started my 55 gallon FW tank about a week ago. Over the weekend it was just running with filters and all. Nothing added yet.

Monday, 3 days ago, I added my Betta fish cause it seemed distressed in the other tank for whatever reason. Appears better now.

Yesterday, I added a few decorations. A couple of those from my other 'established' tank. Along with a net full of gravel. And one other fish. A few hours later I went and picked up the suggested API Master Test Kit and tested the Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate.

Now here is the weird thing.. The Ammonia seemed to either be at 0 or .25 ppm or between. Hard to be exact. The Nitrite tested at 0. But the Nitrate tested off the charts. Above 160 ppm. Tested all again today and the Nitrate may have dropped..The rest stayed the same. Today the Nitrate appears to be around 80ppm though. Unless of course I'm totally blind. For some reason this test is kinda hard to see exactly. Maybe I looked at it wrong yesterday. But regardless...

How exactly could this have occurred. From my understanding it seems awful soon to have such high, 'good', but too much good bacteria. It seems like I skipped the whole cycling process (or royally screwed up something) that should have occurred, and then some. If I'm understanding this correctly. So basically I'm just wondering what could have caused this and basically what can I do from this point on. I'm quite confused from all of this. So any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks..

 

[nohika]

Have you tested your tap water?

 

[eco23]

If it's an API liquid kit, make sure you are doing the nitrAte test correctly by shaking the #2 solution for a full 30 seconds ard the entire solution for a solid minute. Record the results after 5 minutes. Things definitely don't make sense here. I'd also test the water straight from your tap.

There's some other issues you'll need to deal with too as far as cycling your tank...but we can get to that. Did you read a guide about fishless cycling or fish-in cycling?

 

[ChristinaE12]

No, I haven't tested the tap water yet. That was my next thing I was gonna do but wanted to ask here first.

Yes, it is an API liquid kit.. and I did the test exactly as said.

I also know about the cycling and have read up on both fish-less/fish in. But since these testing results, I'm kinda at a stand still cause I'm confused. Everything is backwards. Leave it to me though. Nothing goes as it should.

I'm gonna go test my tap water now.


Thanks for the help thus far.

 

[jetajockey]

Sounds like it's coming from the tap water also unless you put some used gravel in the tank.

 

[ChristinaE12]

I tested the tap water and it was 0.

Yeah.. It must be the gravel somehow.. Which I was wondering from the get go. It sat for over a year.. maybe more and it sat dry for I don't know how long. So didn't think anything would survive. Unless of course the couple things from my other tank made it actually jump that high, somehow. I really don't know a this point.

Ughh.. So it's obviously something from the tank.. Which I still have 0 to maybe a trace amount of Ammonia and no Nitrite. Which is the weird thing to me.


So any suggestions.. Do they make an effective product that lowers the Nitrate. I've seen all sorts of stuff but don't know if anything is legit. My best option a PWC?


Thanks all for the help.

 

[rich311k]

Best way to lower nitrates is through water changes.

 

[eco23]

Did you add water from the established tank? If the gravel had been dry for a significant amount of time, I'm not sure much if any bacteria would survive. Also, without an ammonia source, I don't see how anything would actually be converted to nitrAtes. With a single Betta...it would take an inconceivably long time, IMO, for that much conversion to occur and produce that level of nitrAtes. If the tank has only been set up this short time...that's an impossibility IMO/E.

If you didn't add water from the established tank...I think it has to be a faulty reading. If you did add water from the other tank...you've got some serious water changes in your future.

 

[ChristinaE12]

I've added 2 fish from the other tank. Along with a decoration and a small net full of gravel. That is all from the other tank. All the rest of the gravel is what has sat for year/s.

I've also tested 3 times. They are all the same thus far.

 

[jetajockey]

Well, nitrates can be dry, hence kno3 powder for dosing ferts. They are not alive, just the end result of the nitrogen cycle.

If the gravel was sitting for a long time, any organics in it would have been broken down and mineralized. The nitrogen cycle works in other conditions as well, one example would be the mineralized topsoil process of soaking the dirt and then laying it out to dry. The method is repeated over and over because the mineralizing is meant to be done by the bacteria. If it were as simple as just sun baking it then we could theoretically just toss it in the oven for a while.

I would do some very thorough gravel vacuuming and water changes to lower the nitrate level.

 

[eco23]

Well, nitrates can be dry, hence kno3 powder for dosing ferts. They are not alive, just the end result of the nitrogen cycle.

If the gravel was sitting for a long time, any organics in it would have been broken down and mineralized. The nitrogen cycle works in other conditions as well, one example would be the mineralized topsoil process of soaking the dirt and then laying it out to dry. The method is repeated over and over because the mineralizing is meant to be done by the bacteria. If it were as simple as just sun baking it then we could theoretically just toss it in the oven for a while.

I would do some very thorough gravel vacuuming and water changes to lower the nitrate level.

Good call. Didn't cross my mind. The level surprises me, but ferts, etc...I'm clueless about.

 

[ChristinaE12]

Okay.. So once I get my Nitrates where they should be <20ppm.. Am I good to go or do I have to actually cycle again after that? For whatever reason.

Just asking seeing how everything seems to be backwards as it should have been and not a typical case. So I'm lost pretty much now. No guidelines to follow.

Thanks for the help though. It is very much appreciated.

 

[eco23]

Okay.. So once I get my Nitrates where they should be <20ppm.. Am I good to go or do I have to actually cycle again after that? For whatever reason.

Just asking seeing how everything seems to be backwards as it should have been and not a typical case. So I'm lost pretty much now. No guidelines to follow.

Thanks for the help though. It is very much appreciated.

NitrAtes alone don't show a cycled tank. You still need to cycle. If you already have fish in the tank...here's your guide
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

 

[jetajockey]

I don't think your tank is cycled just yet, but just keep testing and you'll know when its ready once it has 0 ammonia/nitrite for several days.

If all you have is a single betta in a 55 it's likely you won't see any major spikes unless you start overfeeding, so if thats the case I would keep testing regularly and wait at least 4 weeks before considering any more stock.

 

[jetajockey]

Good call. Didn't cross my mind. The level surprises me, but ferts, etc...I'm clueless about.

Yeah what I meant was like, for example, if you had a cycled tank that was running for ages (i.e. huge nitrate #s), and you just let the water evaporate out of it until it was dry, the nitrates are still going to be there, dry, when you fill it back up. That's what I think happened here.

 

[eco23]

Yeah what I meant was like, for example, if you had a cycled tank that was running for ages (i.e. huge nitrate #s), and you just let the water evaporate out of it until it was dry, the nitrates are still going to be there, dry, when you fill it back up. That's what I think happened here.

So we're on the same page and I'm not missing something basic...that in no way means it's viable seeding material since whatever nitrifying bacteria has either long ago starved (once organic matter decomposed) or dried out, correct?

 

[ChristinaE12]

Yeah what I meant was like, for example, if you had a cycled tank that was running for ages (i.e. huge nitrate #s), and you just let the water evaporate out of it until it was dry, the nitrates are still going to be there, dry, when you fill it back up. That's what I think happened here.

Well the first half of that is correct. I actually got the tank and gravel from others. Although I did rinse the gravel a handful at a time, a couple times. Which obviously wasn't enough.

I can also take these two fish back out. Should I do that.. Do the ammonia testing part and see how quickly the Ammonia goes back to 0ppm. From what I understand if it goes from 4ppm to 1ppm in a 24 hour period then the tank is good. And everything is working as should. Would that be my best option at this point.

I'd really like to get things going and get fish. But that is just me being impatient, of course.

 

[jetajockey]

So we're on the same page and I'm not missing something basic...that in no way means it's viable seeding material since whatever nitrifying bacteria has either long ago starved (once organic matter decomposed) or dried out, correct?

Yep, dry = dead, at least for the autotrophs, they do not have a spore form like that hetertrophic 'sludge remover' type junk that they put into the snake oil cycling products.

Well the first half of that is correct. I actually got the tank and gravel from others. Although I did rinse the gravel a handful at a time, a couple times. Which obviously wasn't enough.

I can also take these two fish back out. Should I do that.. Do the ammonia testing part and see how quickly the Ammonia goes back to 0ppm. From what I understand if it goes from 4ppm to 1ppm in a 24 hour period then the tank is good. And everything is working as should. Would that be my best option at this point.

I'd really like to get things going and get fish. But that is just me being impatient, of course.

That's up to you, I think most people advocate going fishless, but if you can get your hands on some seeded media that'd be the best method IMO. You could also try tetra safestart or angelsplus active sponge filter.

They are meant to be used with fish in the tank, and if you have somewhere to move the fish in the event that things go awry, that'd be the method I'd choose.

 

[eco23]

Well the first half of that is correct. I actually got the tank and gravel from others. Although I did rinse the gravel a handful at a time, a couple times. Which obviously wasn't enough.

I can also take these two fish back out. Should I do that.. Do the ammonia testing part and see how quickly the Ammonia goes back to 0ppm. From what I understand if it goes from 4ppm to 1ppm in a 24 hour period then the tank is good. And everything is working as should. Would that be my best option at this point.

I'd really like to get things going and get fish. But that is just me being impatient, of course.

A couple of your facts aren't in line with the normal understanding of fishless cycling.

Whether you choose to do fishless or fish-in is your call. I advise you to research what is involved in both methods and make your decision based on research. I personally advocate for fishless cycling when it is a viable option, but again, your call.

For starters, click on the link in my signature. It'll give you detailed info about the fishless method. The link I posted earlier will help you understand fish-in.

 

[ChristinaE12]

I'd actually prefer fish-less too. I only had put my beta in the tank for a day or two until I were to begin the actual cycle. Then all of this had happened. Which everything came to a halt.

@Eco23 - I already have read your article about fish-less cycle. Along with another that seems to be popular on here too. Which was the plan but as I said. When all of this happened it screwed with everything.