Cycling Question

[NewFish1]

Hello,

My 28 gallon, non planted, freshwater aquarium has been setup since mid November 2011. My problem is that is doesn't seem to be cycling.

My readings are: Ammonia: 8.0+, pH:7.6, Nitrites: about 0.05 and the Nitrates at about zero or a little above.

I currently have only 3 Zebra Danio's in the tank and have been adding API's Ammono-Lock to the water until the PetsMart associate told me about Prime. I know that after adding either of these two chemicals (never at the same time though!) the ammonia will still read high but the Prime should neutralize it, correct?

Is my tank taking an unusually LONG time to cycle. I should add that my water is crystal clear and the three Danio's appear very healthy!!!

Thanks so very much- I'm getting anxious to add some fish!

 

[Terrance]

Have you done any water changes at all since November?

Put the Ammono-Lock in storage because you won't ever need to use it again. Use prime only during water changes. Bring your zebras to the LFS.

 

[jlk]

What test are you using to check your levels? You need to start doing water changes ASAP. 8+ ammonia is deadly for your fish & its way too high to properly cycle tank (fish-in or fishless). This is why nothing is happening in respect to your cycle. The ammo-lock/Prime products help to bind ammonia & convert it to less toxic forms (ammonium) but they only work for @24-36hrs & they only can convert uo to 2ppm amm/nitrite. Ammonium, while not deadly, is still not healthy for your fish. Start doing big (50+%)water changes immediately with temperature-matched, conditioned water (dose to the size of your tank) until you can get your amm levels below .25ppm. Please ask questions if you dont understand anything!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Hi and welcome!
If you plan to keep those fish you need to do a water change NOW. 8+ppm of ammonia is toxic even with the addition of prime. If you don't want them return them ASAP!
You need to do lots of large water changes to get ammonia down to less than .25ppm. Water changes will NOT hider the cycle in any way and they WILL keep the fish safe.
Your cycle may have stalled. Has your pH changed at all during the last few months? pH crashes can cause a cycle to stop. Doing water changes will bring the pH back up and reintroduce vital minerals/buffers into the tank to keep it stable.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/guide-to-starting-a-freshwater-aquarium-186089.html
Please read these ^^^
Any questions don't be afraid to ask!

 

[HooKooDooKu]

At this point, I would say the easiest thing to do is NOT use anymore Ammono-Lock, and to only use PRIME to treat water before you do a pwc (partial water change).

From what I understand, you are supposed to either pre-treat the water using 2 drops of PRIME per gallon of pretreated water (best choice) or 2 drops of PRIME per gallon of tank water if you use something like a python to do a pwc directly from a sink.

For starters, I would suggest that you do a 25% to 50% pcw. After an hour, test your ammonia levels. If they are above 0.25, then do another pcw. Continue doing a pwc each hour until you can get ammonia levels down to 0.25.

Once you've got ammonia levels down, test daily to see how fast the ammonia and nitrite levels are growing. When either reaches about 0.5, do another pwc. Don't be surprised if you find that you need to do a pwc either daily or every other day to keep levels near 0.25 (depends upon the size of the tank, number of fish, and how much they eat).

Eventually (like in a couple of weeks), you should start to see ammonia staying almost at zero, while nitrite levels start being the driving force for the need for pwc (at first, it will be only the ammonia that will be driving the pwc). At this point, the 1st set of bacteria is established and you could say your tank if half cycled. At this point, you should start testing for nitrates as well.

After another couple of weeks, you should see that your ammonia and nitrite reading stay near zero. Now it's time to start watching in nitrate levels because your tank is cycled. At this point, from now on, you will need to do a pwc when your nitrate levels reach something around 20 to 50. Keep testing and watching nitrate levels for a few months. You will slowly start to gauge how frequently you need to test nitrate levels, and eventually learn how often you need to do regular pwc for your tank and stock level.

 

[NewFish1]

Have you done any water changes at all since November?

Put the Ammono-Lock in storage because you won't ever need to use it again. Use prime only during water changes. Bring your zebras to the LFS.

I was doing PWC's about every 3 days until someone at PetSmart advised against doing them so often. My fish appear to be healthy and happy so I won't be taking them to my LFS!!!

 

[NewFish1]

What test are you using to check your levels? You need to start doing water changes ASAP. 8+ ammonia is deadly for your fish & its way too high to properly cycle tank (fish-in or fishless). This is why nothing is happening in respect to your cycle. The ammo-lock/Prime products help to bind ammonia & convert it to less toxic forms (ammonium) but they only work for @24-36hrs & they only can convert uo to 2ppm amm/nitrite. Ammonium, while not deadly, is still not healthy for your fish. Start doing big (50+%)water changes immediately with temperature-matched, conditioned water (dose to the size of your tank) until you can get your amm levels below .25ppm. Please ask questions if you dont understand anything!

I am using the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. It's the only full featured test kit I can find in the Greater Cincinnati, Ohio area!

I just completed a 50%+ water change and will be checking the ammonia level in about an hour. QUESTION: How often and how much should I do water changes during the cycling process?

Thanks for your help!

 

[NewFish1]

Hi and welcome!
If you plan to keep those fish you need to do a water change NOW. 8+ppm of ammonia is toxic even with the addition of prime. If you don't want them return them ASAP!
You need to do lots of large water changes to get ammonia down to less than .25ppm. Water changes will NOT hider the cycle in any way and they WILL keep the fish safe.
Your cycle may have stalled. Has your pH changed at all during the last few months? pH crashes can cause a cycle to stop. Doing water changes will bring the pH back up and reintroduce vital minerals/buffers into the tank to keep it stable.
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/guide-to-starting-a-freshwater-aquarium-186089.html
Please read these ^^^
Any questions don't be afraid to ask!

The pH coming out of our tap is around 8.6. Should I add API's Proper pH to the new water?

Also, I'm getting the feeling from these forums that most of you don't care for API products. Am I correct and if so, why?

Thanks!!!

 

[jlk]

I was doing PWC's about every 3 days until someone at PetSmart advised against doing them so often. My fish appear to be healthy and happy so I won't be taking them to my LFS!!!

If i had listened to the people at petsmart, all of my fish would have been long dead. Do not be afraid of water changes! They will keep your fish healthy while your tank is cycling & they will NOT affect your cycle. Do back-to-back water changes to get your ammonia levels below .25ppm if necessary. As long as your using temperature matched (match the new water temp to that of your tank water) & conditioned water, you will be fine!

 

[NewFish1]

At this point, I would say the easiest thing to do is NOT use anymore Ammono-Lock, and to only use PRIME to treat water before you do a pwc (partial water change).

From what I understand, you are supposed to either pre-treat the water using 2 drops of PRIME per gallon of pretreated water (best choice) or 2 drops of PRIME per gallon of tank water if you use something like a python to do a pwc directly from a sink.

For starters, I would suggest that you do a 25% to 50% pcw. After an hour, test your ammonia levels. If they are above 0.25, then do another pcw. Continue doing a pwc each hour until you can get ammonia levels down to 0.25.

Once you've got ammonia levels down, test daily to see how fast the ammonia and nitrite levels are growing. When either reaches about 0.5, do another pwc. Don't be surprised if you find that you need to do a pwc either daily or every other day to keep levels near 0.25 (depends upon the size of the tank, number of fish, and how much they eat).

Eventually (like in a couple of weeks), you should start to see ammonia staying almost at zero, while nitrite levels start being the driving force for the need for pwc (at first, it will be only the ammonia that will be driving the pwc). At this point, the 1st set of bacteria is established and you could say your tank if half cycled. At this point, you should start testing for nitrates as well.

After another couple of weeks, you should see that your ammonia and nitrite reading stay near zero. Now it's time to start watching in nitrate levels because your tank is cycled. At this point, from now on, you will need to do a pwc when your nitrate levels reach something around 20 to 50. Keep testing and watching nitrate levels for a few months. You will slowly start to gauge how frequently you need to test nitrate levels, and eventually learn how often you need to do regular pwc for your tank and stock level.

WOW! Fantastic information! Just did a 50%+ water change and will retest the water in about an hour.

 

[jlk]

The pH coming out of our tap is around 8.6. Should I add API's Proper pH to the new water?

Also, I'm getting the feeling from these forums that most of you don't care for API products. Am I correct and if so, why?

Dont worry about your ph- your fish are already adapted to it. Its ph swings that can have deadly consequences. I dont know exactly which API products you are referring to- the majority of the people on here use APIs test kits & highly recommend them!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

We aren't against API products. Most of them are great! There is no need for the majority of the products on the market. All you need is a good dechlorinator/conditioner and fresh clean water for your tank. All the bio starter stress zyme additive 'you fish are gunna die without' products are unnecessary. no need to adjust your pH. Your fish will/are already adapted to it. As long as your pH is stable you have nothing to worry about. Large pH fluctuations (caused by pH altering products) can stress or kill fish.

 

[NewFish1]

At this point, I would say the easiest thing to do is NOT use anymore Ammono-Lock, and to only use PRIME to treat water before you do a pwc (partial water change).

From what I understand, you are supposed to either pre-treat the water using 2 drops of PRIME per gallon of pretreated water (best choice) or 2 drops of PRIME per gallon of tank water if you use something like a python to do a pwc directly from a sink.

For starters, I would suggest that you do a 25% to 50% pcw. After an hour, test your ammonia levels. If they are above 0.25, then do another pcw. Continue doing a pwc each hour until you can get ammonia levels down to 0.25.

Once you've got ammonia levels down, test daily to see how fast the ammonia and nitrite levels are growing. When either reaches about 0.5, do another pwc. Don't be surprised if you find that you need to do a pwc either daily or every other day to keep levels near 0.25 (depends upon the size of the tank, number of fish, and how much they eat).

Eventually (like in a couple of weeks), you should start to see ammonia staying almost at zero, while nitrite levels start being the driving force for the need for pwc (at first, it will be only the ammonia that will be driving the pwc). At this point, the 1st set of bacteria is established and you could say your tank if half cycled. At this point, you should start testing for nitrates as well.

After another couple of weeks, you should see that your ammonia and nitrite reading stay near zero. Now it's time to start watching in nitrate levels because your tank is cycled. At this point, from now on, you will need to do a pwc when your nitrate levels reach something around 20 to 50. Keep testing and watching nitrate levels for a few months. You will slowly start to gauge how frequently you need to test nitrate levels, and eventually learn how often you need to do regular pwc for your tank and stock level.

Me again! Sorry to be a bother but here are my latest readings after following your excellent advice. Ammonia:0.50; pH:7.5; Nitrite: 0.0; Nitrate: 0.0

As you can see my ammonia has dropped drastically but the Nitrites and Nitrates are still at zero. What should my next steps be?

Thanks so very much,

Mike

 

[jlk]

No bother at all!!! Good work so far but you really need to drop your ammonia further with another water change- any time it hits .25 (or higher), you need to do water changes to get this number lower than .25ppm. Where you are at right now is the beginning of a fish-in cycle, I am afraid to inform you! Because your ammonia levels were so drastically high, you tank has never been able to cycle properly. Just keep testing your water daily & doing water changes as needed any time your levels of amm/nitrite hit .25 (or higher). Have some patience & keep us posted on your progress!!!

 

[NewFish1]

No bother at all!!! Good work so far but you really need to drop your ammonia further with another water change- any time it hits .25 (or higher), you need to do water changes to get this number lower than .25ppm. Where you are at right now is the beginning of a fish-in cycle, I am afraid to inform you! Because your ammonia levels were so drastically high, you tank has never been able to cycle properly. Just keep testing your water daily & doing water changes as needed any time your levels of amm/nitrite hit .25 (or higher). Have some patience & keep us posted on your progress!!!

Thank you! Actually those readings were taken about an hour after a water change. I have a very early day tomorrow so no more water changes until tomorrow evening. Thanks again!

 

[HooKooDooKu]

I'm assuming your ammonia is dropping because of the partial water changes. But as jlk points out, you need them still lower.

Once the 1st set of bacteria begin to colonize your tank, they will start converting ammonia to nitrite. So when you start getting nitrite readings, you will have to do pwc when ever either ammonia or nitrite get too high.

 

[NewFish1]

Making Progress

Hey all, just want to say thanks. After a concentrated effort of many, many daily water changes (and many times more than once per day) my ammonia level is down to between 0.0 and .25. My Nitrites are at zero. My Nitrates have gone from zero to 10.0 over this past week or so. The only reading that remains high is my pH which is at 7.6. Should I be concerned with this pH reading?

Again, thanks for everyone's support!

 

[jlk]

Hey all, just want to say thanks. After a concentrated effort of many, many daily water changes (and many times more than once per day) my ammonia level is down to between 0.0 and .25. My Nitrites are at zero. My Nitrates have gone from zero to 10.0 over this past week or so. The only reading that remains high is my pH which is at 7.6. Should I be concerned with this pH reading?

Again, thanks for everyone's support!

Great job!!!!!! Your ph is fine (mine sits @8) and your fish appreciate ALL of your hard work!!!