Cycling tank and not working like I planned

[beglely]

Well as you notice i am new to the forum and jumped back into the hobby after having a few fish tanks as a kid. Well I made the rookie mistake of not cycling my tank and as a result ended up with some dead fish. Well I started over about 3 weeks ago. I removed the rest of the survivors (4 ghost shrimp and my betta) into some smaller holding facilities that would have to do until i got the tank cycled (by smaller I mean the betta went back to the bowl and the shrimp in a vase). Well i decided to use the dead shrimp method to cycle my tank. I hadnt bought any water test kits until today and I only got the nitrite and ammonia tests (the others will have to wait until pay day on wednesday--these are API liquid test kits). Well i tested my tank and the ammonia levels were very low (.25ppm) and the nitrites were non-existent much to my disappointment. I re-tested and noticed nothing changed. So back to waiting again. Well for kicks and giggles i tested the water in the shrimp tank...ammonia was about the same--go figure. However my nitrites were through the roof!!! !! Almost 2-5ppm ( i have a hard time judging color but its a very deep and strong pink in the test) I retested and I have produced the same results so I dont think its a fluke) Well besides the obvious health concerns for my shrimp, i need to know if it would be faster and easier if i just transferred all the stuff from the vase i was temporarily keeping the ghost shrimp in to the aquarium to speed up the process (its a 10 gallon). The shrimp look healthy and are very active (1 is carrying eggs in its swimmerrets) and I am about to test the water my betta is in but would transferring all of them back to the tank speed up the process?? I know it kinda defeats the purpose of a fishless cycle but since they seem to be working things a lot faster should i go ahead anyway? I hate the idea of cycling with fish but i had the betta from last semester (sat on the bowl on my desk anyway) and I didnt feel like getting rid of the shrimp and they seem to be cycling their living quarters a ton faster than my tank. Ideas?

Sorry very long post but i wanted to be detailed. Thanks!

 

[mitcore]

There is a chance of your stock dying from an un cycled tank, I would suggest that you add platties or swords tails to cycle the tank, these fish can handle it a bit better then the betta, i am not experienced in shrimp sorry not sure about those,
you can also add bristle noses to the tank they can also handle water changes better then the betta, i would not be putting the betta in there yet if it can be advioded

 

[beglely]

k ill do that. The betta has been in the bowl for months until i first got the tank and I do water changes for him every week or so. The reason I ask if i should move them to the tank or not is because Ive already got high nitrites then im essentially cycling them anyway just in a much smaller space

 

[mitcore]

there is always a chance of deaths in an uncycled tank,
it is a chance we take, by adding fish, some get lucky others dont,

 

[beglely]

well the bowl my betta is in has around 1-2ppm in ammonia and again around 2-5ppm for nitrite

 

[HooKooDooKu]

There is no reason for fish to die if you cycle with fish... it just means that you will need to test for ammonia and nitrites and do about 25% PWC DAILY!!! The exact amount of PWC will perhaps need to change and you see how the ammonia and nitrite levels do based on your bioload.

One of the things that can help is to add a little bit of aquarium salt (perhaps at 1/2 strength as the salt container suggests). I know the shrimp won't mind it (some even require brackish conditions to breed). From what I have read, adding salt to the aquarium allows fish to better withstand high nitrite levels. The idea being NOT that you add salt so that you can skip a day with PWC, but that what nitrites that are going to be present in an uncycled tank can be better tollerated by the fish.

In your current situation, you already have the fish, so you are going to have to change out what ever water they are in daily anyway. Might as well make it the 10 gallon tank so that the waste they are swimming in is diluted by 10 gallons rather that two to four cups of water.

The time to think about fishless cycling is BEFORE you own the fish.

 

[beglely]

Yeah kinda what I figured--I had been doing frequent water changes with my betta already. I would have cycled the tank fishless before i got the fish, but I bought betta back in like august for the dorm and really didnt get roped back into the hobby until about 2 months ago.

 

[beglely]

Update-- ive been doing water changes since i last posted this assuming my cycle was still in progress. Well i did one early this morning and after class went and bought the liquid nitrate test for my aquarium (yay for having money again) and tested my tank to discover that my nitrates are sitting at around 10-15ppm it looks like. Its been exactly 4 weeks since i restarted the tank so is it possible that my cycle has finished in that time? I wish i had bought the test sooner to know for sure but school bills get in the way sometimes. im going to double check in a couple of hours to make sure the readings are correct

 

[HooKooDooKu]

Having nitrate levels in the tank is NOT an indication the cycling is finished. The cycling is finished when you can consistantly get 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite reading.

The fact that you have some nitrate means that the tank/filter has at least SOME of the bacteria that converts nitrite into nitrate.

But for the cycle to be complete, you have to have enough of both the ammonia ==> nitrite & nitrite ==> nitrate bacteria that the levels of ammonia and nitrite remain undetectable.

One way to think about it is like eatting. The first bacteria eats ammonia and poops nitrite. But one bacterium can only consume 1pL of ammonia per day. The second bacteria eats nitrite and poops nitrate. But one bacterium can only consume 1pL of nitrite per day. However, your fish is producing 3,032,172 pL of ammonia per day. If you only have 1,432,331 of the first bacteria and 734,123 of the second, you are going to see 734,123 pL of additional nitrate in your tank each day. But you will also see 698,208 pL of additional nitrite in your tank each day plus and additional 1,599,841 pL of additional ammonia in the tank as well.

So basically, you keep doing PWC each day until you finally have 3,032,172 or more of the 1st bacteria and 3,032,172 or more of the 2nd bacteria.

Of course I'm making up numbers here... but it gets the point across.

 

[beglely]

understandable. I planned on monitoring my water parameters over the next few days with continued water changes just to be sure. I tested ammonia and nitrite levels this morning and they were at 0 as well so ill just keep testing to see what happens over the next week

 

[HooKooDooKu]

Oh, I forgot to add... it's VERY possible to complete a cycle in 4 weeks. Both of my tanks took right at 4 weeks to cycle.

 

[beglely]

ive been performing pwcs every day and I have tested my water every day and still get a constant reading of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and now 10ppm nitrates so I am starting to think fish by monday or tuesday maybe! I figure a weeks worth of testing with 0 readings on the ammonia and nitrites and a 4 to 5 days testing of 10ppm nitrates is a good sign im good to go

 

[ScotJ]

Forgive my ignorance here - but what does PWC stand for? I figure WC is for water changes, but not sure of the rest.

Also - the bacteria your speaking of are found in the live rock and sand I assume?

Lastly- the tank I just purchased comes with a sump with a plant of some sort in it - what purpose does this plant serve? Does it help in the the amonia > nitrite > nitrate conversion?

 

[beglely]

pwc = partial water changes. The bacteria are found in ur gravel, plants, tank walls, filter, etc. if i am correct. as for the plant i have no idea