Euthanasia

[dkmuller]

I had my vet for a small fee put my betta down. She went quick and painless . Some don't think of this but they will do it . I hope this helps if someone wouldn't know what to do.

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[Fishobsessed7]

Sorry about your betta


Fishobsessed7

 

[Jmunroe]

Clive oil available at the drug store works very good and is painless. Any other way at home is painful, aside from a quick sever of the spinal column by a quick cutting off of the head. Clive oil acts as an anaesthetic and with a few drops renders the fish in a painless unconscious state. Then add more to cause euthanasia.

 

[Linwood]

For small tropicals ice cold water works well and is easy at home. I've done culled angel fry that way and they almost instantly stop moving. Anyone who wants a lot more details here is a paper from real vet's:

https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

Start on page 67 bottom.

 

[Jmunroe]

Ice water is not painless and if there is any ice in the dish and the fish touch it, it is extremely painful. I know it's been a common practice for a long time but the shock to them is painful for an instant. And clove oil is so easy to use. I've heard of people putting them in a bowl of water and putting them in the freezer and removing when froze solid. And they thought this was ok and painless. I'm sorry but you would really have to be lacking in the "sense" department to think that was alright. Like they say "common sense ain't so common anymore".

 

[Linwood]

I'm sorry but you would really have to be lacking in the "sense" department to think that was alright. Like they say "common sense ain't so common anymore".

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but I provided a pretty authoritative link to what are considered the humane techniques, and ice water is among them (for smaller, tropical species, and with caveats).

Take it up with the AVMA if you don't like it, or choose from another of their suggestions. I see no reason to be insulting.

 

[Jmunroe]

The insult was directed at people who think it's ok to put fish in a bowl then place that in the freezer and let it slowly freeze solid to kill the fish. Not you. Your simply misguided, and using an older accepted practise that has come to find out causes momentary distress. By the way that article you linked is just some groups claim to acceptable methods but provides no info other than what they think is ok.

 

[Linwood]

Your simply misguided, and using an older accepted practise that has come to find out causes momentary distress. By the way that article you linked is just some groups claim to acceptable methods but provides no info other than what they think is ok.

Yeah, it's so hard to be properly guided on the internet, how can we possibly know who has more credibility.

American Veterinary Medical Association (a.k.a. "just some group")
or
Some random person posting on a forum.

Done here. I didn't have an agenda; just sharing a source of many choices considered ethical. Feel free to continue this debate on your own.

 

[Jmunroe]

I had no agenda either just saw information posted and new there was a better way. And I agree it is hard to be properly guided on the Internet. And yes the AVMA is just a group of people that stated they are ok with this method. Here's a good article relating to the subject that references DR's and studies.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/mobile/content.php?sid=5621

 

[Rianyu]

It's a bit much to call someone misguided still when all of these articles can be debated and re-debated and then some.

Great articles to have access to, however. Thanks both of you

 

[Steveged]

How does anyone know if dropping them in ice cold water is extremely painful? I'm not saying I advocate the practise or not but how can you be so sure that it is "extremely painful"?

 

[Linwood]

How does anyone know if dropping them in ice cold water is extremely painful? I'm not saying I advocate the practise or not but how can you be so sure that it is "extremely painful"?

I certainly cannot answer the question but I ASSUME they watch behavior to see what reaction occurs. I also have an observation.

I buy frozen shrimp, and frozen blood worms. I plop the iced cube into the tank whole. Admittedly the tank water is warm.

The fish pick at it as it melts, often grabbing it and running away (it's funny as often it is a pretty small fish towing this relative ice berg).

Are they so interested in food they endure severe pain?

Or is it not that painful?

Maybe I'm cruel for feeding them thus; I never really thought about it until this conversation. But I never seen any reluctance to grab onto it from any of several species of fish. And as soon as they eat whatever they pulled off, they make another pass.

Again - it's in warm water, it is perhaps a different situation. The only other thing I can draw from is my own experience. If I swish my hand around in very cold water with melting ice cubes, I see very little difference in sensation whether I am in just the cold water, or touching the ice cube.

 

[Steveged]

Yeah that's very true, I feed frozen also and have never noticed any adverse reaction to having been in contact with ice. Having said that though, it is not quite the same as dropping a fish into a bucket of iced water I suppose. I just wondered if there was any research had been done to prove that extreme pain was fealt or if it was a personal opinion.

 

[Mebbid]

Clive oil available at the drug store works very good and is painless. Any other way at home is painful, aside from a quick sever of the spinal column by a quick cutting off of the head. Clive oil acts as an anaesthetic and with a few drops renders the fish in a painless unconscious state. Then add more to cause euthanasia.

Clove oil is the best way I've found to euthanize a fish by far.

For small tropicals ice cold water works well and is easy at home. I've done culled angel fry that way and they almost instantly stop moving. Anyone who wants a lot more details here is a paper from real vet's:

https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

Start on page 67 bottom.

If you're going to say it, say it all. 3.8 cm (1.4 inches) is the maximum size for that method to work humanely. Between 5 tanks the only fish I own that are that small are my fry. It's an unsuitable method for 99% of aquarium fish.

 

[ppo8820]

Ive always wondered how people know if clove oil or the more controversial Vodka is actually painless? I am just not comfortable doing something like that and I like the vet idea since it sure beats the idea of putting a fish in oil where it suffocates. I dont even like the smell of cloves, let alone imagining being dipped in a whole clove bath.

 

[Mebbid]

Ive always wondered how people know if clove oil or the more controversial Vodka is actually painless? I am just not comfortable doing something like that and I like the vet idea since it sure beats the idea of putting a fish in oil where it suffocates. I dont even like the smell of cloves, let alone imagining being dipped in a whole clove bath.

You don't dip the fish in oil so it suffocates. The clove oil acts as a sedative which puts the fish to sleep. The sedative effects gets stronger and stronger the more you add which eventually forces the respiratory mechanisms to stop. To do the clove oil method correctly you mix the clove oil with water and add small amounts of it at a time to the container with the fish.

Alcohol does the same thing, however the concentration that you need of it is harder to get than clove oil.

 

[Linwood]

You don't dip the fish in oil so it suffocates. The clove oil acts as a sedative which puts the fish to sleep. The sedative effects gets stronger and stronger the more you add which eventually forces the respiratory mechanisms to stop. To do the clove oil method correctly you mix the clove oil with water and add small amounts of it at a time to the container with the fish.

But I think the question being asked is an interesting one.... how do you know that's painless. Maybe the fish feels the lack of o2. Maybe it doesn't.

I am NOT saying it is a bad idea or painful, please understand. But I am interested in the mechanics of how vets (or researches or yourself or whomever) actually determine what's painful and what isn't.

Do they hook them up to some kind of EEG?

Do they make inference based on what humans feel? Or more demonstrative animals than fish?

I've heard people say nitrites are painful to fish (I realize they are dangerous, don't misunderstand my question), but I've never seen changes in fish behavior when I've had significant nitrites (e.g. 1ppm).

So ... how do they know?

(Maybe it's buried somewhere in that article I gave, but I didn't see it in a very quick look).

 

[Mebbid]

Nobody knows, we can just learn by observation and knowledge of how it affects the body. Scientists can't even decide for certain that fish can even feel pain.

For some things we can see damage or stress done to the fish such as the archaic usage of alkaseltzer tablets.