Fish died as soon as I put them in the tank

[Katrinag]

I am wondering if they died from PH shock. I have been cycled for almost 2 weeks now. Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 10ppm, Ammonia 0ppm and PH is at 7. I use the API master test kit. This is my second tank. It is 75 gallon with a fluval 406 filter. It is planted with co2. My PH dropped mid cycle so I added crushed coral and that brought it up.

I floated the new fish for 20 minutes in the bag then netted them out. They died within a minute. I started reading about this and found that it may be PH shock. The PH may have been far off compared to the water from the lfs. I did not realize this could happen. I was trying to add 5 Denison barbs and some Harlequin Rasbora's.

I currently have 10 Panda corys cats, 11 Harlequin rasbora's, 1 honey gourami and 2 ADF's. I had no problem when I added the cory cats. It was only when I added the Harleys and the barbs. I added the gourami and ADF from my smaller tank and they were fine. I did lose 2 neon tetra's that came from my smaller tank the same way. I thought it was because of the flow being too strong or just shock. Please let me know if I am on the right track here and how I should be acclimating the new fish. I am sick over this. Thank you

 

[GreenLily]

Did you add any of your water to the bag that the fish were floating in? What I do is add a cup of water from tank they're going into every 10-15 minutes to help them adjust to the different tank water. I do this for about an hour or so. If you just floated them without acclimating them to the different water chemistry, this could likely be the problem. Sorry for your loss!

 

[Huro]

Did you add any of your water to the bag that the fish were floating in? What I do is add a cup of water from tank they're going into every 10-15 minutes to help them adjust to the different tank water. I do this for about an hour or so. If you just floated them without acclimating them to the different water chemistry, this could likely be the problem. Sorry for your loss!

+1.....This or the drip method of acclimation are critical to get you fish properly acclimated, you can find an acclimation guide here in the forums freshwater articles.

 

[Coursair]

Don't ADF need smaller tanks, so they can reach the surface easily ? Ive read this, don't know if it's true.

And I do usually drip or add tank water into bag for gentle acclimation.


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[Katrinag]

Did you add any of your water to the bag that the fish were floating in? What I do is add a cup of water from tank they're going into every 10-15 minutes to help them adjust to the different tank water. I do this for about an hour or so. If you just floated them without acclimating them to the different water chemistry, this could likely be the problem. Sorry for your loss!

no I did not. ugh. I will make sure I do this on the next round. Thank you

 

[Katrinag]

+1.....This or the drip method of acclimation are critical to get you fish properly acclimated, you can find an acclimation guide here in the forums freshwater articles.

ok thank you. I will look for it.

 

[Katrinag]

Don't ADF need smaller tanks, so they can reach the surface easily ? Ive read this, don't know if it's true.

And I do usually drip or add tank water into bag for gentle acclimation.


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My ADF's are almost a year old and are very strong. They are thrilled with the new tank and can swim to the top no problem, they will float up there. They also swim horizontally through the length of the tank and back. They are doing really well and are having a blast in the new tank. I think if they are young ADF's and not healthy or strong they would have a problem.

Thank you

 

[Coursair]

My ADF's are almost a year old and are very strong. They are thrilled with the new tank and can swim to the top no problem, they will float up there. They also swim horizontally through the length of the tank and back. They are doing really well and are having a blast in the new tank. I think if they are young ADF's and not healthy or strong they would have a problem.



Thank you

Oh good. I always thought it was strange advice. Maybe one of those myths that get passed around so much people take it as fact ?


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[Caliban07]

I'm guessing you chucked the LFS water away now? You could have tested their water for toxins (mainly nitrate) and the ph level.

Ph shock can happen obviously and as already mentioned the drip acclimatisation method should always be practiced. This is particularly important also because the LFS may use harder water which contribute to higher TDS readings. You should also look up TDS shock as most often this is the culprit as opposed to ph shock.

In fact any change in water chemistry could shock the fish. Even coming from an LFS tank with sky high nitrates (for example) in to a clean environment can cause problems.

If you use well water or reverse osmosis Then you water may be quite different from the LFS and make acclimatising doubly important.

Crushed coral with also raise your waters mineral content (calcium) in turn increasing the general hardness of the water and TDS (total dissolved solids)

Good luck in the future

 

[Katrinag]

I'm guessing you chucked the LFS water away now? You could have tested their water for toxins (mainly nitrate) and the ph level.

Ph shock can happen obviously and as already mentioned the drip acclimatisation method should always be practiced. This is particularly important also because the LFS may use harder water which contribute to higher TDS readings. You should also look up TDS shock as most often this is the culprit as opposed to ph shock.

In fact any change in water chemistry could shock the fish. Even coming from an LFS tank with sky high nitrates (for example) in to a clean environment can cause problems.

If you use well water or reverse osmosis Then you water may be quite different from the LFS and make acclimatising doubly important.

Crushed coral with also raise your waters mineral content (calcium) in turn increasing the general hardness of the water and TDS (total dissolved solids)

Good luck in the future

Hi Yes I did toss the lfs water but did get the new fish today and tested. The lfs has really high PH 7.6 +. I am in the midst of the correct acclimation. Thank you for the good luck

 

[Caliban07]

Hi Yes I did toss the lfs water but did get the new fish today and tested. The lfs has really high PH 7.6 +. I am in the midst of the correct acclimation. Thank you for the good luck

You are welcome. I use a syringe or pipette when acclimatising and just drip some water in every 5-10 mins for up to an hour. Also don't put the LFS water in your tank.

When there is mostly your water in the bag than the LFS you can pour the bag and empty the fish in a net held over a bucket and very quickly (but gently) net the fish in to your water but let it swim out on its own.

 

[Katrinag]

You are welcome. I use a syringe or pipette when acclimatising and just drip some water in every 5-10 mins for up to an hour. Also don't put the LFS water in your tank.

When there is mostly your water in the bag than the LFS you can pour the bag and empty the fish in a net held over a bucket and very quickly (but gently) net the fish in to your water but let it swim out on its own.

Well I did well with the acclimation of the harlequin rasboras but did not with the Denison barbs. It's so strange. I did a drip acclimation for an hour and the LFS water
had to be totally diluted. I put one in and it did not last 30 seconds. I scooped it out and put it back in the temporary container and it came back. Did the tank water acclimation for another hour and the same thing happened. I don't get it. It doesn't make sense that after mixing in tank water for 2.5 hours the tank still kills them. Maybe it's just the type of fish ?

 

[Sheldon.Winters]

try adding them to the smaller tank? get water checked at lfs if they do and good luck.
After that you'll need a ouija board, a priest, several shrunken heads and a witch doctor never hurts.

 

[Katrinag]

try adding them to the smaller tank? get water checked at lfs if they do and good luck.
After that you'll need a ouija board, a priest, several shrunken heads and a witch doctor never hurts.

I am telling you. It's crazy. What a bummer. I am going to call a better LFS and see what they say. I think I need some other ideas for some other mid level swimmers.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

It's the method, I move fish often and without consequence.

To change from 7.6 to 7 should take you two days as a minimum.
No more than 0.3 pH per day. Several sources will confirm this.

The fish need to make a few physiological changes, the slower they do this the less stressful. Some fish are quicker at adapting to fluctuations in water chemistry.

If you have qt, use it. Spend a few days observing fish isolated in this way. Then you can decide if they are strong enough to adapt or if you should medicate first.

It is most likely your water is different from anywhere else, even tank to tank in the same room. Always acclimate fish.

(How long does it take you to adjust to that hot environment you just landed in? Or the humidity of another location? Even local heat waves take some days of adjustment before you are comfortable, same thing in wintertime or for your ski holiday, those big jackets are not for the looks!)


(Caliban, take note) http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/sick-fish-304984.html
I have some TDS data but it applies to my water sources and my mix ratios, it can't really be used in established systems as there are too many other factors involved that make up your TDS, for pure (clean) source water it is ok and as a rough guide it will give you an idea, an unhealthy poorly maintained tank and the most beautifully pristine system could have the same TDS reading, direct transfers in a situation like this could result in deaths.

((Either test properly or use system water after wc from tank A to Qt as a wc, refill tank A, two days/weeks/months later, fish ready for transfer) it took some weeks to adjust my puffer fish, it took months to shift the clown loach water back to an ideal state.)

GH/pH, temperature, salinity (Kh should be mentioned) obviously in nitrogen free water. Match these over the course of days or weeks you should not have any problems with healthy fish. (I know because it's how I do things, I have done it this way for years with no problems excepting one puffer fish, I move tanks and stock regularly)

 

[Hobgob]

To change from 7.6 to 7 should take you two days as a minimum.
No more than 0.3 pH per day. Several sources will confirm this.

Seems drastic. I couldn't see someone drip aclimating their discus purchased from 7.8 ph to their qt at 6.5 for 5 days.

Also in a planted tank you typically see changes like greater than this through out the day and night...

 

[Caliban07]

Seems drastic. I couldn't see someone drip aclimating their discus purchased from 7.8 ph to their qt at 6.5 for 5 days.

Also in a planted tank you typically see changes like greater than this through out the day and night...

Yeh a change of 0.3 seems important from something I have read but that does seem excessive.

I'm not saying the fish wouldn't appreciate a slower acclimatisation period but 5 days?

 

[Hobgob]

Yeh a change of 0.3 seems important from something I have read but that does seem excessive.

I'm not saying the fish wouldn't appreciate a slower acclimatisation period but 5 days?

At .3 per day 7.8 to 6.5 would take 4.3 days..I'm sure the fish would appreciate it but that kind sets out the typical drip method

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Seems drastic. I couldn't see someone drip aclimating their discus purchased from 7.8 ph to their qt at 6.5 for 5 days.

Also in a planted tank you typically see changes like greater than this through out the day and night...

This is not a balanced system, something is wrong. PH stability is something you should be aiming for over 24hrs. (The reason some reef keepers and in certain cases with freshwater fish, a counter lit refugium is set up) The fish don't like it!

You wouldn't drip a change like that? Small changes of nearly the same water adjusted towards the goal. It takes as long as it takes. The Bigger the difference or volume of water the longer the timeframe. To dilute alkaline water to neutral or acid (or the reverse of this) takes a massive amount of water (if you maintain balance)

If some parasites/bacteria survive for 70+ days how long do you quarantine for in an unmedicated tank? 2 days enough? 10 days maybe? The choice is yours.
So it's ok to get it wrong and try again if you want, it isn't criminal. Perhaps unethical to a point but it is ok.

I spent weeks adjusting the puffer, in this case it was more for the bacteria in the filter. His qt was the display as he is in a specimen only tank. Quicker transition would have been more work (& money) regarding water quality.

The longer I take the safer it is. The clowns took ages. To me they are valuable fish, I do not have money to waste.
I think discus were expensive, not sure on the price now as home breeding is more commonplace but a tank full will not be cheap, breeding pairs are not cheap. Would you add a fish to a tank of prized fish after dripping it for an hour?
Personally I would spend a month or so going over the fish in qt. sometimes this isn't possible (emergencies when you run out of room, sometimes we get maxed out)

For some strange reason particularly with long lived species, the older they get the more it cost to buy a similar sized replacement. Some fish are absurdly priced, a few pounds/dollars here and there is ok? What if you had a few grand in a pair of stingray?

I think the health of the animal whatever it is, should be the most important thing. The time it takes is irrelevant.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Seems drastic. I couldn't see someone drip aclimating their discus purchased from 7.8 ph to their qt at 6.5 for 5 days.

The qt would (should) be 7.8. You would float to acclimate temperature and drip for the other parameters. Then slowly adjust qt to display water. This will allow the fish to make the physiological changes that are necessary.
GH is probably the most important broadly speaking, I think it more likely to be chloride specific. (That's my opinion)


(If the fish dies in the same water, it isn't your fault. if the fish dies in vastly different water it is your fault) that's how the shops see things over a few days/months after purchase.

I managed to get free fish (hill stream loach) mine died and I was able to prove my point to the shop (I think it was three months later). If your fish die and your water is different they will not refund or replace. That's how it works in England.