Fish emergency!!

[Dizzydea]

I use Paraguard usually as well, but I ran out and forgot to get more. I like to keep it on hand incase I need it and of course ran out and now don't have it when I need it.

 

[Brookster123]

Ok so now we talk about too much stuff.. A fish is massively stressed upon introduction to a new tank, even more so to a qt which is usually bare bones set-up.. I usually qt 2 weeks, one week of cleannnnn water and good food, than the 3-5 day paraguard, unless they bug out instantly, than I just clean qt for a lil longer. What exactly is your regiment? From what I've gathered you could be introducing a bit to much stuff for the fresh fishies to handle??

 

[IShallNtEatFish]

I totally understand being far from places but now that it has been confirmed that they gave you a very very very sick fish it has become a moral issue. Any place that knows anything should give you your money back with no issue.

 

[Dizzydea]

My qt set up is taken down and disinfected after each use. When I set up again I fill it will water, water conditioner and prime. I acclimate the fish for 2 hours through a drip. Place the fish in and let them settle for a day or 2 then start with a low end dose of primafix and melafix. Or in the past I have used Paraguard but I didn't have any. I change the water every other day 50%

 

[Brookster123]

My qt set up is taken down and disinfected after each use. When I set up again I fill it will water, water conditioner and prime. I acclimate the fish for 2 hours through a drip. Place the fish in and let them settle for a day or 2 then start with a low end dose of primafix and melafix. Or in the past I have used Paraguard but I didn't have any. I change the water every other day 50%

do you have any kind if filtration on this tank? 10 gal?

 

[IShallNtEatFish]

Since the tank is taken down, how do you cycle it before you put fish in it?

 

[Dizzydea]

A small filter, and I don't cycle it because I test and change the water regularly. I take it down each time for sanitary purposes.

 

[Dizzydea]

There's an air stone as well.

 

[Brookster123]

A small filter, and I don't cycle it because I test and change the water regularly. I take it down each time for sanitary purposes.

big problem.. You're creating the most harsh environment imaginable for a stressed fish.. Unicycled and inundated with foreign matter.. You should keep a couple extra small filters running on your displays for qt.. I keep 2 whisper 10's ($10 each) running for qt or hospital tanks.. Edit-I realize this has gone off topic but it's all pertinent,)

 

[altum nuggy]

Keep up water changes and dosing good luck

 

[Andy Sager]

My qt set up is taken down and disinfected after each use. When I set up again I fill it will water, water conditioner and prime. I acclimate the fish for 2 hours through a drip. Place the fish in and let them settle for a day or 2 then start with a low end dose of primafix and melafix. Or in the past I have used Paraguard but I didn't have any. I change the water every other day 50%

FINALLY!!!!!! Somebody who understands the use of a QT and Hospital tank
Sorry to hear of your problem Dizzydea.
From the looks of it, my preferred med would be Nitrofurazone. Here is the info on it. Hope it helps

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]USE: Bactericidal for some gram-positive and many gram-negative bacteria causing disease in fresh water and marine fish.
Nitrofurazone inhibits several bacterial enzymes, especially those involved in the aerobic and anaerobic degradation of glucose and pyruvate.
This synthetic antibacterial is effective for control of Flexibacter/Columnaris such as these symptoms: Fuzzy, thin, white coating on the body and fins.

It is best combined with Kanamycin for effective treatment of Columnaris pathogens, in fact the COMBINATION of Nitrofurazone and Kanamycin is often the only effective treatment for Columnaris.
Nitrofurazone is also often effective for Aeromonas such as these symptoms: fish have blisters forming on the skin that are full of a clear to yellowish fluid, these blisters may turn into large sores.
As well Nitrofurazone is often effective for the related Vibrio and similar bacterial species.

Further Reference Information:
*Columnaris (Flexibacter) in Fish
*Aeromonas, Vibrio, Furunculosis in Fish

Nitrofurazone is particularly useful for control of minor topical skin infections of freshwater & marine fishes that have not become systemic. As well, Nitrofurazone is effective for surface skin infections of Streptococcus iniae which may appear as a milky peeling slime.
Effective as well against marine ulcer disease and some protozoan infestations. For this reason, Nitrofurazone is a good next step treatment for wounds and other topical infections when first step treatments such as Pimafix or Melafix fail.
Nitrofurazone is also useful in treating Furunculosis often found in Koi.

Serious adverse events related to nitrofurans are very rare. Acquired resistance of bacteria to nitrofurans during therapy has been rare and has not appeared on a significant scale in over 50 years of use.
Do not use in the presence of invertebrates.
Nitrofurazone is more effective at lower pH levels, which means use for marine fish is best in baths, NOT the display aquarium!

Nitrofurazone is not Skin absorbed, so use of this Bactericidal for systemic infections is not recommended.
However Aquatronics and myself have found that Nitrofurazone combines well with Kanamycin (which is skin absorbing), and are very complimentary to each other!
When Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone are combined these medications form a synergistic combination that is not totally understood, but what is known is that often leaving one or the other out of the equation or not using both at full strength often results in failure in treatments of stubborn/advanced bacterial infections such as Columnaris.

As well since Nitrofurazone is often better topically for Aeromonas while Kanamycin's skin absorbing properties combine well with Nitrofurazone for Columnaris.
Since these bacterial infections are often hard to differentiate by the average aquarist, this can be a good combination when unsure.
Further Reference: Nitrofural, Nitrofurazone; Skin Absorbing

Source for: Nitrofurazone (Furan 2) from AAP

DOSAGE: 250- 500 mg per 20 gallons. Treat every 48 hours (24 hours for severe problems) with a 50% water change before each treatment. Treat for 10 days.

Nitrofurazone is found in Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Furan 2 and Jungle Labs Binox

Contraindications

*Do not use in the presence of live plants or many delicate invertebrates
*Not best used in saltwater display aquarium, better in hospital tank or bath with not carbonate decor[/FONT]

 

[Dizzydea]

Thanks Andy!!! I just try to create a sterile environment. My method has always worked and I think this poor fellow was just so ill. He's maintaing in his pot perm bath but we will see what tomorrow will bring. I have seachem kanplex (kanamycin), focus, and metronidazole. I will try these after his bath.

 

[Mebbid]

Andy beat me to the diagnosis But seriously, Comments for most who participated in this thread are following

Ok, so all quick prescriptions aside.. Whatever exactly is the situation? Was that fish in a tank by itself? Is it a new fish?? People! We need information! There is the ultimate cache of fishy experts( I'm not I've but man do I try! I even google stuff!!) here but when in a sure situation a 4 word post will do anything but save your fish..skimmers love details!! Not the saltwater skimmers either!! People skimmers! That skim threads! To save lives!!!!!

That's the same place almost all new aquarists start out with. Participating in the forums and googling When I first joined the hobby I must've spent at minimum 100 hours or so searching, bookmarking, and researching different things about the hobby.

I'm sorry he has no chance of survival

Without even knowing what's wrong with him how do you make that conclusion? It's a columnaris infection which a cursory google search will turn up and suggest a whole host of treatments. Everything from salt and methylene blue dips for emergency lifesaving treatments to full treatments such as the antibiotics that andy suggested. Don't say a fish is doomed if you aren't sure what's wrong with it in the first place please.

I medicate all new fish with melafix and primafix for 2 weeks

Melafix and pimafix are a very gentle preventative medication. I wouldn't ever recommend them for treating full blown infections because seriously, who would bring a a rubber knife to a gun fight? They are useful under certain circumstances but are not to be relied upon when a fish is fully sick such as this one.

 

[Dizzydea]

The fish had no symptoms that I could see until yesterday. I would have treated him with other meds had I seen them sooner. I use melafix and primafix to aid with the stress of transport, handling and as a preventative. I don't use it as a cure for anything.

 

[IShallNtEatFish]

The fish had no symptoms that I could see until yesterday. I would have treated him with other meds had I seen them sooner. I use melafix and primafix to aid with the stress of transport, handling and as a preventative. I don't use it as a cure for anything.

See this is what is bothering me as a biology major.... Who something so serious could just pop up overnight...(bit saying you didn't see it!) just it has gotten my attention and now I need to know what it is.....

 

[Brookster123]

You got me mebbid, I really butchered that one. My auto correct hates me and i have a.d.d... Makes for some grammatical disasters at times.. You know what I meant it was a forumn compliment..I was only saying I'll google other peoples problems in hopes if helping in any way I can if I can!

 

[Andy Sager]

Rapid deterioration like that pretty much confirms a bacterial type infection. Nitrofurazone (Furan 2) eliminates the need to determine gram + or gram - forms since it treats both. Sadly, I have seen this condition too many times and wish i had seen your thread earlier. My response would have been the same but you would have had the answer sooner.
Hope it helps.

 

[Mebbid]

See this is what is bothering me as a biology major.... Who something so serious could just pop up overnight...(bit saying you didn't see it!) just it has gotten my attention and now I need to know what it is.....

It's an acute infection. Things like that pop up in a matter of hours. This really looks to be columnaris. I had a fight with it myself in the middle of last year where it came in on a betta from my room mate and infected almost every tank in the house (thankfully we managed to keep it out of the cichlid tank ) It ended up killing over 50 fish before we could get it under control. The acute form of columnaris can wipe out an entire tank in a single day if it's bad enough

The fish had no symptoms that I could see until yesterday. I would have treated him with other meds had I seen them sooner. I use melafix and primafix to aid with the stress of transport, handling and as a preventative. I don't use it as a cure for anything.

Ahh, gotcha.

 

[IShallNtEatFish]

It's an acute infection. Things like that pop up in a matter of hours. This really looks to be columnaris. I had a fight with it myself in the middle of last year where it came in on a betta from my room mate and infected almost every tank in the house (thankfully we managed to keep it out of the cichlid tank ) It ended up killing over 50 fish before we could get it under control. The acute form of columnaris can wipe out an entire tank in a single day if it's bad enough



Ahh, gotcha.

I got it now. Brain isn't firing right. No no no no dead fish that's one thing I hate is dead fish...

 

[Dizzydea]

Rapid deterioration like that pretty much confirms a bacterial type infection. Nitrofurazone (Furan 2) eliminates the need to determine gram + or gram - forms since it treats both. Sadly, I have seen this condition too many times and wish i had seen your thread earlier. My response would have been the same but you would have had the answer sooner.
Hope it helps.

Much obliged Andy. I can't get my hands on the nitrofurazone in my town so hopefully the potassium permaganate bath helps and the metronozodile and kanaplex works. I suspect Baytril would help some to. Your response came quite quick! In fact everyone's did. I don't usually get such an abundance of responses so thanks everyone!