Fish-in cycling help - emergency?

[malinpingy]

I'm in the middle of a fish-in cycle with my new 40 Gallon planted aquarium after PetSmart employees did not mention/explain the cycling process. All other water conditions were properly prepared ahead of time. Now I'm in a situation where the ammonia is too high. I've dumped at least 100$ worth of Nutrafin Cycle with multiple water changes. Yesterday, after finally finding a store that had it, I added a full 16oz bottle of Fritz Zyme 7 after taking out and changing 10 Gallons (5 Gallons of new water and 5 Gallons of cycled water with very little ammonia). Today I measured and it's hard to tell but I don't believe the ammonia went down or it was extremely high to begin with (8.0ppm+ possibly 4-6ppm now). I do have some Seachem Stability, Seachem Prime and API ammo-lock but have been getting mixed advice on these products and how they react with other products. I'm just not sure where to go from here; it's approx the time I should add another dose of ammo-lock and I'm not sure if Seachem Stability can be used after Fritz Zyme 7. Any advice of what else I could or should be doing would be great. Aquarium logs included.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Side note: Amazon sword has brown spots and brown around edges.

 

[fishwonder]

Stop with all the chemical crap! Start here and read here about how to cycle your tank.

 

[rlederer]

I agree with stopping the chemicals. I have 20 tanks and whenever I need to start a cycle from scratch, I just set the tank up, without fish but maybe plants, and let it sit for six weeks or so. No messing with chemicals. I usually put a piece of sponge or filter floss in the tank from an established tank but that's it. Chasing the cycle with chemicals will just be frustrating.

 

[m.j.gomez]

I'm in the middle of a fish-in cycle with my new 40 Gallon planted aquarium after PetSmart employees did not mention/explain the cycling process. All other water conditions were properly prepared ahead of time. Now I'm in a situation where the ammonia is too high. I've dumped at least 100$ worth of Nutrafin Cycle with multiple water changes. Yesterday, after finally finding a store that had it, I added a full 16oz bottle of Fritz Zyme 7 after taking out and changing 10 Gallons (5 Gallons of new water and 5 Gallons of cycled water with very little ammonia). Today I measured and it's hard to tell but I don't believe the ammonia went down or it was extremely high to begin with (8.0ppm+ possibly 4-6ppm now). I do have some Seachem Stability, Seachem Prime and API ammo-lock but have been getting mixed advice on these products and how they react with other products. I'm just not sure where to go from here; it's approx the time I should add another dose of ammo-lock and I'm not sure if Seachem Stability can be used after Fritz Zyme 7. Any advice of what else I could or should be doing would be great. Aquarium logs included.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Side note: Amazon sword has brown spots and brown around edges.

Hello, you want to keep it simple. Less chemicals less stress for you, your fish & wallet. First you need to bring your ammonia levels down cause anything above 5.0 can stall your cycle & anything above 0.25 can damage your fish. I suggest you do this by doing 25% water changes every 2hrs. This is just a precaution so you don't shock fish some how. 1 dose of prime can handle 1ppm of ammonia for 24-48hrs. Not to exceed 5 doses. This is important to know when fish in cycling & things go sideways.
A fish in cycle usually takes 6-8wks. During this period you want your ammonia level to be 0.25ppm & to do a 50% water change when it gets to 0.50ppm if you have an adjustable heater & your fish can handle it. You also want to raise your heat to 82° a few degrees every couple hrs. This is optimal for bacteria growth. The rest is diligence & patience. Hope this helps!!!!!

 

[malinpingy]

Hello, you want to keep it simple. Less chemicals less stress for you, your fish & wallet. First you need to bring your ammonia levels down cause anything above 5.0 can stall your cycle & anything above 0.25 can damage your fish. I suggest you do this by doing 25% water changes every 2hrs. This is just a precaution so you don't shock fish some how. 1 dose of prime can handle 1ppm of ammonia for 24-48hrs. Not to exceed 5 doses. This is important to know when fish in cycling & things go sideways.
A fish in cycle usually takes 6-8wks. During this period you want your ammonia level to be 0.25ppm & to do a 50% water change when it gets to 0.50ppm if you have an adjustable heater & your fish can handle it. You also want to raise your heat to 82° a few degrees every couple hrs. This is optimal for bacteria growth. The rest is diligence & patience. Hope this helps!!!!!

Thanks everybody! Very helpful information. I also heard that low PH can stall the cycle. Right now I've been trying to get my PH to 7.0 but has been stuck at 6.6. Should I get the PH of new water higher than 7.0? I plan to be more aggressive with my water changes ; did a 50% change today so we'll see how it goes. Ammonia must've been way higher than 8.0ppm because last few water changes made little to no changes.

 

[fishwonder]

Thanks everybody! Very helpful information. I also heard that low PH can stall the cycle. Right now I've been trying to get my PH to 7.0 but has been stuck at 6.6. Should I get the PH of new water higher than 7.0? I plan to be more aggressive with my water changes ; did a 50% change today so we'll see how it goes. Ammonia must've been way higher than 8.0ppm because last few water changes made little to no changes.

Yes low pH will inhibit your beneficial bacteria. Need that to be over 7.0. Just add some baking soda to raise pH. 1 tsp per 25 gallons to start, then check. You can do bigger water changes with no effect on fish as long as the temperature is about the same and you add your de chlorinator.

 

[m.j.gomez]

Thanks everybody! Very helpful information. I also heard that low PH can stall the cycle. Right now I've been trying to get my PH to 7.0 but has been stuck at 6.6. Should I get the PH of new water higher than 7.0? I plan to be more aggressive with my water changes ; did a 50% change today so we'll see how it goes. Ammonia must've been way higher than 8.0ppm because last few water changes made little to no changes.

6.6 will not hurt cycle. It has to be below 6.0 before it harms it. If your tap water is 6.6 & tank the same then I wouldn't mess with it. Chasing the perfect ph can be dangerous. Ph swing's can kill or worse cripple a fish. A fish can adapt to a stable ph more easily then having the ph level constantly changing.

 

[fishwonder]

Fish are not “shocked” or damaged by changes in pH. The water in a lake or pond can be 6.5 pH five feet down and 8.0 pH one foot down and the fish swim up and down through these waters constantly without harm, happens all the time. I have added baking soda to my 75 gallon tank and took the pH from 5.8 to 7.5 in 5 minutes with no issues.

Here is more information on raising pH and the levels needed for bacteria to work.

 

[m.j.gomez]

Fish are not “shocked” or damaged by changes in pH. The water in a lake or pond can be 6.5 pH five feet down and 8.0 pH one foot down and the fish swim up and down through these waters constantly without harm, happens all the time. I have added baking soda to my 75 gallon tank and took the pH from 5.8 to 7.5 in 5 minutes with no issues.

Here is more information on raising pH and the levels needed for bacteria to work.

The problem is maintaining that level.

 

[fishwonder]

No science there, just somebody posting again out of the blue. Maintaining is easy as the link says. Crushed coral or Aragonite in a mesh bag will keep it fine forever. I found that out after reading the authors data and use Aragonite now. pH always 7-7.5 with 2 tbls in a mesh bag. Fishlore....HAAAAAAA.

 

[m.j.gomez]

Then why not explain in fist place. You are advising a newbe without giving the consequences. He has enough on plate cycling & his pet surviving the process!!!!!

No science there, just somebody posting again out of the blue. Maintaining is easy as the link says. Crushed coral or Aragonite in a mesh bag will keep it fine forever. I found that out after reading the authors data and use Aragonite now. pH always 7-7.5 with 2 tbls in a mesh bag. Fishlore....HAAAAAAA.

 

[fishwonder]

Then why not explain in fist place. You are advising a newbe without giving the consequences. He has enough on plate cycling & his pet surviving the process!!!!!

And that's why I post the science behind the data. All in the links to read and learn.

It's a myth... Dropping a fish into water with a different pH or temperature will “shock” it and can kill it.


Tested and proven.

 

[malinpingy]

Then why not explain in fist place. You are advising a newbe without giving the consequences. He has enough on plate cycling & his pet surviving the process!!!!!

It's crazy how many different answers I get which conflict with each other. Anyway I did a 50% water change and added more Nitrifying bacteria. Ammonia is now 4.0ppm, Nitrite at 0ppm and Nitrate is at 10ppm. PH levels have been a constant chase for me so I'm thinking of buying some sort of natural feature that will maintain a higher PH but I should probably get Ammonia to <0.5ppm before I raise PH right?

 

[m.j.gomez]

From my understanding the higher the ph the more toxic ammonia becomes. This may be reason your fish are tolerating high ammonia levels. I would cycle tank first & as you become more experienced you will have the necessary knowledge adjust ph without losing any fish.

It's crazy how many different answers I get which conflict with each other. Anyway I did a 50% water change and added more Nitrifying bacteria. Ammonia is now 4.0ppm, Nitrite at 0ppm and Nitrate is at 10ppm. PH levels have been a constant chase for me so I'm thinking of buying some sort of natural feature that will maintain a higher PH but I should probably get Ammonia to <0.5ppm before I raise PH right?

 

[fishwonder]

From my understanding the higher the ph the more toxic ammonia becomes. This may be reason your fish are tolerating high ammonia levels. I would cycle tank first & as you become more experienced you will have the necessary knowledge adjust ph without losing any fish.

You are correct. His low pH is actually 'saving' his fish. Here are quick ammonia numbers...

The chronic toxicity, where the ammonia kills slowly by a variety of mechanisms, is as follows:

• 20 to 100 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 6.0
• 2 to 10 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 7.0
• 0.2 to 1 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 8.0

Ammonia issues takes days and weeks to show issues with fish. That's why water changes (large like you said), are just fine to bring ammonia down. You are again correct with the pH of 6.0 and below inhibiting beneficial bacteria (BB) from oxidizing ammonia. But a pH of 6.5 inhibits it by 90% so an ammonia spike is possible and that is what the OP is seeing. He has to get his pH to 7+ to get his BB kick started again to oxidize his ammonia and by water changes to bring it down a faster.

 

[m.j.gomez]

Thanks! I just learned something that will be stored in my screen shots for future reference. Seriously!!!!!

You are correct. His low pH is actually 'saving' his fish. Here are quick ammonia numbers...

The chronic toxicity, where the ammonia kills slowly by a variety of mechanisms, is as follows:

• 20 to 100 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 6.0
• 2 to 10 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 7.0
• 0.2 to 1 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 8.0

Ammonia issues takes days and weeks to show issues with fish. That's why water changes (large like you said), are just fine to bring ammonia down. You are again correct with the pH of 6.0 and below inhibiting beneficial bacteria (BB) from oxidizing ammonia. But a pH of 6.5 inhibits it by 90% so an ammonia spike is possible and that is what the OP is seeing. He has to get his pH to 7+ to get his BB kick started again to oxidize his ammonia and by water changes to bring it down a faster.

 

[malinpingy]

You are correct. His low pH is actually 'saving' his fish. Here are quick ammonia numbers...

The chronic toxicity, where the ammonia kills slowly by a variety of mechanisms, is as follows:

• 20 to 100 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 6.0
• 2 to 10 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 7.0
• 0.2 to 1 ppm of ammonia TAN at a pH of 8.0

Ammonia issues takes days and weeks to show issues with fish. That's why water changes (large like you said), are just fine to bring ammonia down. You are again correct with the pH of 6.0 and below inhibiting beneficial bacteria (BB) from oxidizing ammonia. But a pH of 6.5 inhibits it by 90% so an ammonia spike is possible and that is what the OP is seeing. He has to get his pH to 7+ to get his BB kick started again to oxidize his ammonia and by water changes to bring it down a faster.

After a few days of 50% water changes, my ammonia is now 2.0ppm Nitrite 0.25ppm Nitrate <5.0ppm. Water is clear now and I was able to find what probably was causing the ammonia to stay so high; all algae eaters + 1 tetra died and was found rotten.

I recently measured GH and KH; GH: 2 dGH & KH: 11 dKH.
GH needs to be brought up slightly and KH lowered right? What can I do to do this? I'm assuming I need to use a reverse osmosis device and add the minerals separately?

I also got a CO2 diffuser and the drop checker tells me that I have low CO2; I have not used the diffuser yet.

I also bought a second new filter that runs on up to 70 Gallons originally to put in my uncycled fishless 10 Gallon but was wondering if adding it to the 40 Gallon would help the cycle?

Thanks

 

[malinpingy]

Thanks! I just learned something that will be stored in my screen shots for future reference. Seriously!!!!!

After a few days of 50% water changes, my ammonia is now 2.0ppm Nitrite 0.25ppm Nitrate <5.0ppm. Water is clear now and I was able to find what probably was causing the ammonia to stay so high; all algae eaters + 1 tetra died and was found rotten.

I recently measured GH and KH; GH: 2 dGH & KH: 11 dKH.
GH needs to be brought up slightly and KH lowered right? What can I do to do this? I'm assuming I need to use a reverse osmosis device and add the minerals separately?

I also got a CO2 diffuser and just started using it since my CO2 level was low.

I also bought a second new filter that runs on up to 70 Gallons originally to put in my uncycled fishless 10 Gallon but was wondering if adding it to the 40 Gallon would help the cycle?


Thanks

 

[fishwonder]

I also bought a second new filter that runs on up to 70 Gallons originally to put in my uncycled fishless 10 Gallon but was wondering if adding it to the 40 Gallon would help the cycle?

It's not your filter, it's the media that's in the filter. Must use good efficient media and not hard media that provides no water movement through the media.

Read here about what filter media to use and not to use.

 

[malinpingy]

Re:

It's not your filter, it's the media that's in the filter. Must use good efficient media and not hard media that provides no water movement through the media.

Read here about what filter media to use and not to use.

How do I use K1? Do I remove all components in the filter or just the coral to add K1?

Also, below is where I'm at with the level: