Fishless cycling uncertainity

[jlk]

Hi, i am currently on day 10 of fishless cycling a 50 gal planted tank using ammonia. The plants & some of the filter media are from an established aquarium. Ive been keeping the ammonia at 2-3ppm (it drops slightly overnight but never below 1ppm), the nitrites have been off the charts (5+ppm) for a week straight, and the nitrates are 80ppm. The ph is 8.2 (my tap water is also high ph & very hard). My question is i keep reading opposing information on whether or not to start doing pwc now(high nitrites inhibits further bacterial growth?)or just leave everything alone & wait?? If i wait, do i then do a pwc before adding fish (im reading conflicting advice on this as well)? This is my first time trying fishless cycling!! Any advice is appreciated!

 

[eco23]

Welcome to the site

Water changes aren't harmful to cycling at all...they're just unnecessary to do more than a couple times during a fishless cycle IMO. Personally I'd advise doing a massive water change to reduce your no2 down to .5. If they're way off the charts now...it might take draining it down to the gravel to get them down. Just don't be surprised if they jump back up the next day. Doing the water change will refresh all the things the beneficial bacteria have used during the process. Just remember to use the dechlorinator during the pwc. Check out the link in my signature if you haven't seen it . Good luck!

 

[jlk]

Thanks!!! Im going to wait til tommorrow and see how my numbers look before doing a big water change. I am assuming i should add more ammonia (2-3ppm?) after doing the water change to keep the bacteria happy& alive?? I will keep you posted on my progress!

 

[eco23]

Thanks!!! Im going to wait til tommorrow and see how my numbers look before doing a big water change. I am assuming i should add more ammonia (2-3ppm?) after doing the water change to keep the bacteria happy& alive?? I will keep you posted on my progress!

Yep, you want to dose the ammonia back up afterwards. It's okay to add it at a lower level for a few days to prevent your nitrIte from shooting right back up, but I wouldn't keep it at a low level for more than 3-4 days. Hopefully in that time the no2 > no3 bacteria will catch up with the ammo > no2 and you'll be cycled

 

[marchmaxima]

After the PWC, consider taking the Ammonia up to 4ppm which I find to be the sweet spot during fishless cycle process.

 

[jlk]

Hi again! I changed 70% of the water, waited 1/2hr, and retested. The nitrites are still off the chart (5+ API masterkit, 10+ strip). Nitrates dropped to 20ppm (from 80ppm). Ph dropped to 7.8 (from 8.2). Dosed ammonia back up to 4ppm. Do i do another water change tommorrow or just leave things alone and wait? Thanks!!

 

[eco23]

Hi again! I changed 70% of the water, waited 1/2hr, and retested. The nitrites are still off the chart (5+ API masterkit, 10+ strip). Nitrates dropped to 20ppm (from 80ppm). Ph dropped to 7.8 (from 8.2). Dosed ammonia back up to 4ppm. Do i do another water change tommorrow or just leave things alone and wait? Thanks!!

That's your call. If you want to do another water change, I'd do it now and get the no2 dropped to .5-1. There's no reason to wait till tomorrow if you're gonna do it.

Water changes don't hurt anything, they can potentially shave a couple days off your cycle...I just don't view them as something that needs to be done regularly. To me it defeats the purpose of cycling without fish and takes away one of the benefits. But yeah, if you've already got the bucket out...you might as well do another massive one (80-90%?) to really get the levels down.

 

[jlk]

Ok. Good news is my ammonia dropped from 4ppm to zero overnight!!!! Nitrites are still crazy & the nitrates jumped from 80ppm to over 160ppm! Did another water change & dosed ammonia. Waiting to see what tommorrow brings.....

 

[marchmaxima]

Sounds like it's supposed to.

 

[kurtyboh]

yeah most likely in a couple of days your nitrites will be dropping

 

[jlk]

Hi! Honestly, im getting a bit frustrated!!! I have done 70% water changes daily since sat (70% is about as low as i can go with my vac). Today i did 70% (nitrites are still off the charts) followed by ANOTHER 50%. And the nitrites are still off the charts. Ive got a great colony of ammonia bacteria that are dropping the ammonia from 4ppm to zero every night. So, this is my question-can i skip adding ammonia for a day or two to give the nitrite bacteria a chance to catch up??? Or will this starve my ammonia bacteria to death? The water changes are getting a bit ridiculous & time-consuming (the only way i can fill the tank back up is by 1 gallon jugs which takes over an hour to do!!!)!!!!!! HELP!!!! Thanks, jessica

 

[eco23]

I'd just leave it alone and wait it out personally. You've already done large pwc's which refreshed the nutrients and buffers in the water. Unless you see any big drops in pH, the ammonia stops dropping or the nitrAte stops rising...I'd leave the water jugs in the closet for now. You can drop the ammonia level down for a few days if you'd like though. People do fishless cycles everyday without doing a single water change, that's one of the benefits of doing it. Can dropping the no2 down once or twice shave a couple days off? Perhaps it does. Are they needed? Definitely not IMO/E.

 

[jlk]

Thanks!!! Im going to leave it alone for awhile! So, its ok to not add ammonia for a day or two??? thanks, jessica

 

[eco23]

Thanks!!! Im going to leave it alone for awhile! So, its ok to not add ammonia for a day or two??? thanks, jessica

I'd probably throw in around 1ppm...but a couple days without ammo won't be the end of the world. I definitely wouldn't keep the ammonia level lower for more than 3-4 days though. The last thing you want is the bacteria adjusting to the lower amount and becoming weaker.

 

[jlk]

Thank you!!!!!!! jessica

 

[kurtyboh]

i personally wouldn't change a thing, including the water. you are on the right track and you need the bacteria to feed off of the nitrites not just manually remove it from the system. having a lot wont hurt your cycle at all, in fact i accidentally spilled some ammonia in the first tank i set up. 23ppm ammonia- took less than three weeks to cycle, of course my nitrites i couldn't even figure out.. they were way too high even only using a quarter of the solution and multiply the end result by four test was still maxed out. I did no pwc's on it until i had zero ammo and trites.

You are close and you dont want to mess up your bacterial colony or stall your cycle. just have patience, its that hardest thing about this hobby, but also the most important!

 

[jlk]

Hi again! Im getting even more frustrated!! I havent changed the water since monday and my tank seems to be getting worse. I have kept up with dosing ammonia daily but its no longer dropping to zero overnight anymore (drops from 2-3ppm to 1-2ppm). I am no longer seeing nitrates and the nitrites are still off the charts. I guess im going to do another water change today because i dont know what else to do.....

 

[eco23]

Hi again! Im getting even more frustrated!! I havent changed the water since monday and my tank seems to be getting worse. I have kept up with dosing ammonia daily but its no longer dropping to zero overnight anymore (drops from 2-3ppm to 1-2ppm). I am no longer seeing nitrates and the nitrites are still off the charts. I guess im going to do another water change today because i dont know what else to do.....

A slow down in ammonia conversion is usually related to a pH crash IME...so that's definitely worth checking. A cycle can also stall from a lack of nutrients in the water which the bacteria have used up while colonizing. Either way...the cure is a massive water change and maybe a small pinch of finely ground up fish food. NitrAtes don't disappear unless it's through water changes or plants absorbing them...otherwise it may have been an error with the test.

 

[jlk]

Ph is still same ballpark of what its been (8.2)-i check it daily and its remained unchanged. I checked the nitrates twice just to be sure (same result-less than 5ppm) and they have been steadily dropping all week. The tank is planted but last week i had readings of 80 & 160ppm of nitrates. I dont know what is going on!!!!

 

[eco23]

Hmm...odd. If the ammonia isn't dropping, it's definitely stalled for one reason or another. Since the pH isn't the issue, I'd guess it's either from a lack of nutrients the bacteria need which they use up during colonization, or it's possible the no2 is so high it's interfering with conversion. The only other possibility I can think of would be if you had forgotten to dechlorinate the water during the last pwc or something.

I know it's a pain in the butt...but this weekend I'd make a point of doing whatever it takes to drop the nitrIte down to .5-1. It may take a couple massive (like 90%) pwc's, but if you're already gonna do one...might as well make it count. Then for the next few days only add 1ppm of ammonia (not for longer than 3-4 days though). This will still feed the bacteria while helping prevent things from shooting back up too quickly...but don't be surprised if the nitrIte does indeed jump right back up to 5+. It's all part of the process.

Let us know how it goes