Help!

[Kwenbee]

I have not added chlorine eliminator because I know that our water is not chlorinated. It is well water, and I had no idea about heavy metals. So...should I look for something that removes them?

Actually, Al is fine now. I did a test this morning, and the ammonia is down to between 2.0 & 3.0. The nitrites still at .25 and pH is up to 7.0. The guppy was going to the surface a little before I did the water change, but then he seemed fine.

I did not vacuum the gravel and that seemed not to stress the guys out too much.

Yes, Bill is the Betta, so I guess he'll be a loner the rest of his life. Child wants to get him a girlfriend, but I keep putting that off, so hopefully, I can discourage that.

Good idea about letting her read some of the articles on the fish. She's actually an advanced reader, so I'd probably only have to explain a little to her. I don't let her keep the food in her room (the tanks are in there) and I have to be with her when they are fed. Normally, I take the food out of the cannister and hand it to her to put in the tank, so I know they won't get too much. We weren't doing that at first...she was taking it out of the cannister and I'm sure she was taking more than I thought she was.

I'm going to do another check today at lunchtime just to see how the levels are and maybe do another water change...or should I just leave it alone until tomorrow unless the levels are REALLY high? I've gone an entire week without killing a fish and I'd really like to continue the streak

 

[AJ]

Never hurts to check - your levels kinda seem to be all over the map...and then you can change water if necessary.
Personally I am a titch concerned about well water - you may want to consider using some RO/DI water or ask LFS about testing for/removing heavy metals - or maybe someone here knows.

 

[Kwenbee]

Actually, what I'm using is half distilled and half well water. I am also not using the well water directly from the tap. I fill the gallon jugs after the distilled water is gone with well water and let it sit for a few days with the cap off so some of the harmful stuff evaporates.

I know we had or water tested quite some time ago, and it was actually very good water...nothing dangerous for humans in it. It is very soft water, and has no "well" water odor or discoloration.

I honestly think the problems stem from being too new at this and overstocking the tank to quickly. As I said this morning, the ammonia level seems to be dropping...slowly...but it's dropping. The nitrites have not started rising yet, and I think what many have said about the tetracycline treatment re-starting our cycle. I just have to keep up with it a few times a day until the levels get where we need them. I will do a test at lunchtime (around 1 PM for me) and see if it is continuing to drop. My question now is, if the ammonia has risen since this morning (it was about 2.5 today) should I do ANOTHER water change today or wait til tomorrow? Or, if it is still 2.5, should I do another change or just wait to see what happens tomorrow? If the bacteria has started to do it's thang, I sure don't wanna disrupt it!

From the articles you nice people have sent me, I should see a spike in ammonia, then a drop to 0, then a spike in nitrites, then a drop to 0, and that will mean I'm good to go...right?

Edited to add: I just checked the water our guys are living in...didn't bother with pH since that's been fairly consistent. Ammonia has dropped to 2.0; nitrites still holding at .25. No Weird Al today and everyone else seems fine. Will check again tonight when I get home and hopefully won't need another water change before tomorrow.

Another question...if the levels are steadily going down as they should, do I stop doing the water changes?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

While the cycle is somewhat predictable...we are dealing with a pretty complicated and dynamic system, so sometimes things go a little differently than expected.

I wouldn't worry about heavy metals, personally, presumably if the water is safe for people, it's safe for fish. And since the water is even further diluted, well I wouldn't worry about it. With well water, sometimes you have higher than normal levels of nitrates, especially if you're near farms (Which I think you mentioned in your rational for going with the DI water). At what point you start your 55 gallon, you might want to do some research into live plants, as they really work wonders on slurping up the nitrogenous compounds.

Now on to the cycle! Typically what you'll see in a "cycling" tank, is rise in ammonia levels, then as they taper off, you'll start to see nitrites. Sometimes this is kind of a murky area, we can't really predict the nature of the bacteria. One thing that is pretty consistent (which drives people with a new tank crazy!) is that the bacteria that oxidize nitrite to nitrate are much slower to form strong colonies in your tank. Basically, this conversion isn't the most effective way for them to get energy, and it can take some time for them to reproduce in your tank. This means you might have weeks (!!) of high nitrite levels before they start to drop. As far as water changes...it's kind of a subjective area. Some people are of the school of thought that you should just leave it be (and hope your fish are hardy)...some are quite diligent in changing whenever they get a reading higher than 1ppm. I kinda figure my fish will let me know how high is too high...if they're behaving normally, no signs of sickness, but my levels are a tad bit high...I'd probably just leave it. Small water changes probably won't slow down the cycle all that much, provided you aren't vaccuming the gravel. I'd bet in the next couple of days you'll have a real jump in your nitrite levels, so you'lll probably have to keep the water changes up for awhile!

Good luck!

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Oh and also...there is no need to leave the tap water sitting for any length of time...the only thing that's evaporating out is the H2O!

If you have chlorinated water, you can leave it out to let the chlorine dissipate (which is why chloramines are used as well in some areas, they stay in solution).

 

[Kwenbee]

Oh, gosh...so that was ANOTHER thing I read in my mass research on these poor fish! I have these jugs of water sitting around for no reason...gee whiz!

Okay...I think I've got this figured out now, so I'll follow everyone's advice and see how things go. The fact that the ammonia level is steadily decreasing is a good sign, I'm sure!

Oh...and over the weekend, I was telling some people at a birthday party about this dilemma with the tanks. One of the guys there said he never did anything special to fish someone gave him...never tests the water, just feeds em and they've been fine...I almost smacked him!

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

LOL...unfortunately it isn't until things go wrong that a lot of people learn alllll about this stuff.

I started out with 2 goldfish from Petco...the told me to run my obscenely small tank *empty* for a week, then it would be ready for fish...didn't really make much sense to me, but they're the experts right? LOL, well needless to say, I've done a lot of learning since then, and it's always a work in progress (and i'm very happy to say that I've got the same 2 goldies I started out with...tough lil buggers managed to outlive my ignorance LOL)

Now that my tank is stable and cycled, I rarely test the water parameters. I don't really like playing mad scientist with my fish (save that for work! lol)...I'm sure you'll find that you'll gain a good sense of what your fishies behaviour is like, what the tank water looks + smells like...and I've found this to be just as effective at guaging my tank health than test tubes.

 

[Kwenbee]

One other quick question...right now we have no quarantine tank. My mother has a 1 gallon aquarium she used to use for her Betta that has since gone on to greener waters. Since we'll only be adding small fish, can that be used for quarantine? Or is it too small? How long do I quarantine them?

My plan is to eventually use the 10 gallon as a quarantine for the 55, but that's a LONG way off for now. Actually considering scouting out yardsales in the spring for a tank rather than the expense of buying new. But until then, what do I do for quarantining new guys?

 

[Allivymar]

Coupla options.

If they are really small fish, like neons, a 1g is fine for such a short period of time (minimum 2 weeks although longer is obviously better). Do know, however, the smaller the tank the easier it is for water parameters to go bad. You have to be exceptionally diligent, as most of your guys won't be able to grab air from the surface like the bettas and will have severe breathing probs if ammonia/nitrites spike (as I'm sure you're aware).

The other option is to go buy one of the rubbermaid containers. Yep, a 5g or 10g one. Rinse it out REALLY well, throw a filter and a heater on there (and a aerator if theres no surface agitation) and you're good to go. Lots of folks use rubbermaid containers as QT tanks; their cheap, easy to clean and easy to store. Just don't use it for anything else!

 

[Kwenbee]

Okay...thanks!

Levels remaining steady at 2.0 ammonia and .25 nitrates. I did a 25% water change this morning to be safe. Will check again tomorrow!

 

[Neuve]

All seems good to me... IMO youre half the way home.
Keep up the good work

 

[Kwenbee]

I didn't do a water change this morning. I tested both this morning and at lunch and the ammonia was still at 2.0 and the nitrites at .25. However, tonight, it seemed that the aquarium had an odd smell, so I did another check. The water is also VERY cloudy...like a milky white.

The ammonia might have gone up a little...like maybe 2.5. It's so hard to tell if there is a change (plus the fact that I'm so paranoid). The fish seemed a little agitated, but I added some algae wafers tonight for Al, and they ALL seem to like them, so I think they may be fighting over them. Nitrites remain at .25. I did a quick 25% water change just to be safe, and I'll check it again in the morning.

I'm wondering if I need to change the charcoal filter again...or will that start me all over? I have only been removing the water from the top of the tank...not vacuuming the gravel. When should I start vacuuming the gravel again?

I hope you all are right and I'm halfway home....I certainly will be glad when I can enjoy these guys!

 

[Neuve]

How often do you feed em?
IMO you should do it on a regular basis, maybe skipping one day or two per week so your bottom feeders eat all the remnants @ the bottom and you dont get mini-cycles going on.

Remember that the other halfway home is patience. Cycles can take from three weeks to 3 months to cycle. I had to learn the hard way loosing lotsa fish. IMHO you should just be patient. If you want, you can replace your carbon filter to help your water clear up. I wouldnt do it since you may have a significant amount of bacteria building up there, but you could let your old insert sit at the bottom of the tank just so you dont loose your bacteria. I did it since i had an UGF and most of my bacteria should be laying on the gravel. (I hope)

Patience, is the key to knowlodge. Thats what my father used to say...

Gluck!
Pato

 

[Kwenbee]

We feed them twice a day, but very small amounts. They seem to be eating very well. There isn't much sinking to the bottom, and Al seems to be scarfing up what does.

I have come to the conclusion that Al's circle exercise through the bubbles is just that. He just seems to like to do spins through the bubbles every now and then. No head slamming into the gravel anymore, so I guess that may have been related to higher ammonia levels than he liked.

I did a check this morning and the ammonia was up to 3.0 again. I did a 25% water change. Nitrites haven't changed...still .25.

THREE MONTHS! Holy cow! I'll be insane by then if I have to do daily water changes for three months!!!! I'm hoping for the three week plan, since we're in week 2 of no lost fish.

 

[Kerrinne]

Hang in there and be patient, Kwenbee! I am around week 5/6 now. My tank cycling seems to be going pretty well, and my nitrates are rising leaving ammonia and nitrites lowering. I kept fish losses down to a minimum with daily water changes of 20-25% for a couple of weeks straight. Then I went to every other day. Now I'm at once every four days, slowing pushing out to once a week. I lost so many fish in the first two weeks of my tank, that I wanted to be extra dilligent to protect my survivors. It is a pain to find time to do it every day, but it's short term. You can make it.

Glad you found this board like I did. There are some very smart and helpful people here.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Kwenbee -

When was your last gravel vac?

Usually white cloudy water is indicative of a bacterial bloom (but not of the bacteria we necessarily want!). Charcoal won't do a thing for it. These little guys take hold (generally) when there is a lot of leftovers for them to munch on (but not always...sometimes they just show up).

Here are a couple ideas:

-If it's been awhile since you last gravel vac (over a week), you might want to try doing a small one (only vaccum 1/2 the tank or maybe even less).

-Cut down on your feedings to once a day, or even once every other day (and don't increase the amount of food you're giving them!! Nomatter how much they beg!).

 

[Kwenbee]

Actually, that thought occurred to me. I hadn't been doing gravel since so many of you smart people suggested I hold off. I did a small gravel vac last night after I saw the guppy hovering at the top. I did a check (I've been doing water tests three times a day) and the ammonia level had risen to 3.0.

I checked it again this morning and the ammonia level had dropped back to 2.0, but the nitrite levels had risen to .50. I'm hoping that's a good thing.

The water is clearer this morning after doing the gravel vac. The fish still seem fairly normal...no gasping at the surface or frantic swimming. After the gravel vac yesterday, the guppy returned to normal swimming, so I guess I fixed it. After the gravel vac, I added about a teaspoon of aquarium salt, since I hadn't added any in quite some time, and I read on here that salt is a good thing for neutralizing nitrites...or am I dreaming that?

Anyway, I really hope this slight spike in the nitrites is a sign that I'm nearing the end of the cycle and we'll be good to go from now on.

Oh...and as far as the feedings go...my daughter is a very routine child...she gets stressed if her routine gets messed up, plus, the fun of feeding the fish is what gets her out of bed in the mornings (she's a notoriously tough riser), so we have continued the twice a day feedings, but CUT WAY BACK on the amount they get. Actually, they are only getting one VERY small pinch of flakes every feeding. And every couple days we drop an algae wafer in for Al. So I don't think we're overfeeding. We are actually giving less food with the two feedings than when we fed once a day. There really wasn't a lot of gunk in the gravel when I vacuumed it. Of course, after the vacuum, there was some floating debris, but not as much as has been in the past.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Sounds like things are on the right track!

Keep it mind that it still might take awhile for the nitrites to drop (you'll probably see a bigger jump in levels in the next day or two). The oxidation of nitrite to nitrate is not a particularly energetic reaction, so the bacteria tend to be slower forming.

I understand about the routine...even some of us grown up types get stuck in 'em Sometimes when your ammonia levels are high already, it's just easiest to minimize any extra sources (food and poop). Hopefully your ammonia levels will take a plunge shortly (right about when the nitrites jump).

Things to look ahead for:

-salt is definitely the way to go during high nitrite levels. Remember it won't evaporate out, so only add it when you're doing water changes (and remember to dose only the water you're changing, and not add enough for the entire tank each time).

-gravel vacs...probably going to want to continue to do small gravel vacs, no more than once a week.

good luck, and good work!

 

[Allivymar]

And just to add to sweets great advice, salt is THE recommended treatment for nitrite poisoning. The chloride ions compete with the nitrite ions at the gills; without the salt the nitrite ions take the place of oxygen in the blood (sorta like carbon monoxide does with people) and the fish suffocates. Salt prevents it, and it doesn't take a lot of salt either

 

[Kwenbee]

And my saga continues....

The ammonia level is stuck at between 1.0 and 2.0 and the nitrite levels are stuck at .5 now. It's getting so I expect to see green and purple in my little test tubes three times a day!

However, the tank has developed a rather unpleasant smell. I did some sniffing and it was definitely from the filter. When I took out the filter pack, it was totally disgusting...all brown and goopy. I hope I did the right thing, but I changed the carbon and filter (remember, I had the antibiotic treatment about a month ago, so I don't know if some of that goop is related to the filtering of the antibiotic.)

I did another small gravel vac and found a little pocket of decayed food that had apparently been hidden in a back corner. It was quite a bit, so I hope that resolved my problem. I'm back to doing 25% water changes from the top for the week, so hopefully my levels will get better.

We have added two albino catfish (I know, probably not the BEST idea, but it was Daddy's fault...little blonde haired girls and batted eyelashes), so I'm hoping they will help with the food on the bottom...they seem to be little pigs, so we'll see! At this rate, they'll probably be the biggest fish in the tank!