This is a desperate woman reaching out. I've never done anything like this, and I'm a bit of a computer idiot, so I don't know how to start. Is there a betta expert out there who would be willing to establish a dialog with me--while I'm in and out of work over a day or two--so I can get to the bottom of my failure?
I am a failure with bettas.
- Thread starter Mavi
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Jess1ca
Aquarium Advice Addict
Mavi said:
There are lots of people here who know alot about Bettas
What exactly I the problem? Are you implying they all die?
If you could provide more info on your situation you would probably get more feedback
Lets start with the basics
What are you keeping them in? Bowl or tank?
Filtration?
Heater?
Have you tested your water? What are the most recent parameters?
Does/did the Betta have tank mates?
Are you using a dechlorinator in your water?
A little more info should get you a response.
Welcome to AA!!!
shellieca
Aquarium Advice Addict
Welcome & +1 with Andrews, more info. is needed to help you. There are quite a few Betta people on this forum.
O.K. I received an E-mail to provide more information. I wasn't sure if I should reply to that or respond here, so I'm responding here. Here's the full skinny:
I've had community aquariums in the past. I tried a couple times to introduce a betta, and they always died within days. I chalked it up to too much water commotion and maybe other fish. A couple years ago I yanked out an antique 2-gall fish bowl I've had, bought a half-moon betta, and kept him for almost 2 years. He went too soon, but I think I know what I did wrong then. I think I overtreated the water, did not change 100% of it, maybe did not do enough water changes, and fed freeze-dried food. Live and learn. So then I decided to get a new fish and ditch the bowl in favor of an Eqlipse 3-gallon with a filter and bio-wheel. As soon as I received it in the mail, I hated it. The whole cover has to come off every time you feed. But, I went ahead with my plan, and found a distributor in NYC over the internet. I'm only 350 miles from there. I spent a small fortune on a stunning half-moon. I waited with bated breath for his delivery the next day, and when it came, my excitement went to horror when I opened the box and found TWO male bettas. Seller was trying to be nice. I didn't have the heart to give extra fish to a store to sell to someone who would keep him in a cup. So, I dug out the old bowl, swearing the whole time, and plopped him in. He lived there, and my gorgeous one lived in the Eqlipse, happily for a couple weeks. I then devised a plan to set up a 10-gallon, divided aquarium with a filter I could turn down to 1/2 strength, which I would place right in the middle so no fish got exposed more than the other. I had the aquarium set up on a Tuesday, water went in on Wednesday, filter was turned on Thursday, and Friday night the fish went in. I aged the water ahead of time a day or so, but still put in some Stress Coat. (Chemist/fish enthusiast who works at PetSmart told me to do NOTHING else to the municipal water in this town.) I did put in some aquarium salt, too, and a couple drops of aquari-sol, just for the new set-up. Tank has LED lights that are not too bright (Marineland single-bright). The divider is plastic mesh held in by plastic report binders that I siliconed to the sides. I used pure silicone - no additives. I fed the fish frozen brine shrimp and blood worms and betta pellets, alternately. I kept the temperature between 75 and 78. It would go down a tad overnight and then warm up with the rest of the house during the day. I put no other fish in yet. Four days, everything fine. Day five, one sick fish (acting obviously sick with crappy looking fins). Started adding melafix as directed on the bottle (which I now see here is not correct). Next day, no better. Get paranoid about my water, so I yank them out back into the bowl/Eqlipse situation in nice fresh water. One fish rallies a little. Had to go away for 28 hours. Came back, still bad-looking fish. Immediately have my water tested by PetSmart. Perfect water. No nitrates, chlorine, ammonia, or bad PH (our PH is high at first here, but the water goes a little more acid on it's own - chemist tells me). So I put the fish back in the tank, turned the heat up to 80, added melafix, and didn't turn the lights on except for natural light. Next day, dead $50 fish. "Free" fish is hanging on, but he's been on death watch for 3 days now. He lays on the bottom of the tank, will come up and eat if I roust him, and his fins are practically gone. I stopped adding melafix and put the charcoal back in the filter to get it out of the water. I can't smell it any more. Some sites say absolutely you cannot keep these fish in an aquarium. But I know so many people who have in the past! I am driven to distraction by this. These fish going from gorgeous to (practically) dead in four days! Could this possibly be just from water movement from a filter???? I was going to give them some buddies, but I never got that far. I have read that water fluctuations can give them fin rot, but what does that mean? Two degrees? Or would it be 15 degrees? What is bad fluctuation to a betta? What on earth am I missing here???? I have so much time and money invested in this now, I don't want to forever give up. And they are really the only fish I like because of their personalities. Is there a way I can make this work? Thank you, whoever you are, who stuck with me through all this!!!
I've had community aquariums in the past. I tried a couple times to introduce a betta, and they always died within days. I chalked it up to too much water commotion and maybe other fish. A couple years ago I yanked out an antique 2-gall fish bowl I've had, bought a half-moon betta, and kept him for almost 2 years. He went too soon, but I think I know what I did wrong then. I think I overtreated the water, did not change 100% of it, maybe did not do enough water changes, and fed freeze-dried food. Live and learn. So then I decided to get a new fish and ditch the bowl in favor of an Eqlipse 3-gallon with a filter and bio-wheel. As soon as I received it in the mail, I hated it. The whole cover has to come off every time you feed. But, I went ahead with my plan, and found a distributor in NYC over the internet. I'm only 350 miles from there. I spent a small fortune on a stunning half-moon. I waited with bated breath for his delivery the next day, and when it came, my excitement went to horror when I opened the box and found TWO male bettas. Seller was trying to be nice. I didn't have the heart to give extra fish to a store to sell to someone who would keep him in a cup. So, I dug out the old bowl, swearing the whole time, and plopped him in. He lived there, and my gorgeous one lived in the Eqlipse, happily for a couple weeks. I then devised a plan to set up a 10-gallon, divided aquarium with a filter I could turn down to 1/2 strength, which I would place right in the middle so no fish got exposed more than the other. I had the aquarium set up on a Tuesday, water went in on Wednesday, filter was turned on Thursday, and Friday night the fish went in. I aged the water ahead of time a day or so, but still put in some Stress Coat. (Chemist/fish enthusiast who works at PetSmart told me to do NOTHING else to the municipal water in this town.) I did put in some aquarium salt, too, and a couple drops of aquari-sol, just for the new set-up. Tank has LED lights that are not too bright (Marineland single-bright). The divider is plastic mesh held in by plastic report binders that I siliconed to the sides. I used pure silicone - no additives. I fed the fish frozen brine shrimp and blood worms and betta pellets, alternately. I kept the temperature between 75 and 78. It would go down a tad overnight and then warm up with the rest of the house during the day. I put no other fish in yet. Four days, everything fine. Day five, one sick fish (acting obviously sick with crappy looking fins). Started adding melafix as directed on the bottle (which I now see here is not correct). Next day, no better. Get paranoid about my water, so I yank them out back into the bowl/Eqlipse situation in nice fresh water. One fish rallies a little. Had to go away for 28 hours. Came back, still bad-looking fish. Immediately have my water tested by PetSmart. Perfect water. No nitrates, chlorine, ammonia, or bad PH (our PH is high at first here, but the water goes a little more acid on it's own - chemist tells me). So I put the fish back in the tank, turned the heat up to 80, added melafix, and didn't turn the lights on except for natural light. Next day, dead $50 fish. "Free" fish is hanging on, but he's been on death watch for 3 days now. He lays on the bottom of the tank, will come up and eat if I roust him, and his fins are practically gone. I stopped adding melafix and put the charcoal back in the filter to get it out of the water. I can't smell it any more. Some sites say absolutely you cannot keep these fish in an aquarium. But I know so many people who have in the past! I am driven to distraction by this. These fish going from gorgeous to (practically) dead in four days! Could this possibly be just from water movement from a filter???? I was going to give them some buddies, but I never got that far. I have read that water fluctuations can give them fin rot, but what does that mean? Two degrees? Or would it be 15 degrees? What is bad fluctuation to a betta? What on earth am I missing here???? I have so much time and money invested in this now, I don't want to forever give up. And they are really the only fish I like because of their personalities. Is there a way I can make this work? Thank you, whoever you are, who stuck with me through all this!!!
shellieca
Aquarium Advice Addict
Sorry you are having such troubles with Bettas. First, you should have your water tested with a liquid water test kit for ammonia, nitrites & nitrates? Do not use strips as the are inaccurate. Did you ever do a water change on the new tank? When a tank is new frequent water changes are required & daily water testing. You are essentially doing a fish IN cycle & I suspect the fish are dying from toxins in the water. Did you do a water change on the 10g? When I did a fish IN cycle on my 10g I had to do 50%+ water changes about every 3 days.
Billbug68
Aquarium Advice Addict
Not to mention they might have been over stressed from shipping, then moving back and forth from different tanks, making them more susceptible to illness and death from the un cycled tank.
Edit: also, if the divider was clear, allowing them to see each other, that could stress them out too.
Edit: also, if the divider was clear, allowing them to see each other, that could stress them out too.
tarpon
Aquarium Advice Addict
Hello, I just want to say that I had my share of bad luck when I was starting out, but not to worry. You'll figure things out and be able to enjoy it more when you know the fish are happy.
It Sounds like you set up a good environment for them. The real key to healthy fish imo is water changes.
In an established tank doing one water change a week is good but I'm guessing (as the person said above ) that the tank wasn't cycled and this is What killed them. Daily, even twice daily water changes can be neccessary in an uncycled aquarium with fish.
You can Google "the nitrogen cycle in aquariums " or "cycling an aquarium " if you need more info on the process. also be sure to use a dechlorinator on all water you add to the tank. Seachem prime dechlorinator (red bottle) is really great for fish in cycles as it detoxifies the ammonia and nitrite (harmful chemicals involved in the nitrogen cycle) for around 36 hours while still making it available for your biofilter.
Also, there is an article on this website about how to cycle an aquarium. I can't provide a link because I'm on my phone.
It Sounds like you set up a good environment for them. The real key to healthy fish imo is water changes.
In an established tank doing one water change a week is good but I'm guessing (as the person said above ) that the tank wasn't cycled and this is What killed them. Daily, even twice daily water changes can be neccessary in an uncycled aquarium with fish.
You can Google "the nitrogen cycle in aquariums " or "cycling an aquarium " if you need more info on the process. also be sure to use a dechlorinator on all water you add to the tank. Seachem prime dechlorinator (red bottle) is really great for fish in cycles as it detoxifies the ammonia and nitrite (harmful chemicals involved in the nitrogen cycle) for around 36 hours while still making it available for your biofilter.
Also, there is an article on this website about how to cycle an aquarium. I can't provide a link because I'm on my phone.
Hobgob
Aquarium Advice Addict
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2011
- Messages
- 1,893
You Should get yourself a liquid test kit. Peatsmart and a lot of other stores just use the strips because they have to many tanks to test and its way faster for them. Temperature shouldn't change more then 1 degree an hour. But you should read up about the nitrogen cycle like everyone said. When you set up a new aquarium and your moving that fish you should always try and take the filter with it. As far as the water flow goes. Male Betta fins are a lot longer then they are suppose to be so it makes it hard to swim against the current. Also since they are labrynth fish, they need to be about to take oxygen from the air. If you have to much surface agitation the Betta will not be able to do that. If you need to you can raise the water so there isnt so much space for the water to fall out or stuck a piece of foam so it can just roll into the water.
You have a nice set up but like someone mentioned you should have had a divider that wasn't see through. Your Betta fish were probably all flared up at each other. You can keep them in an aquarium, you can even put other fish in with them. The main thing is you have to make sure the tank mates won't hurt him and that he will like the tank mates. Betta fish are hard because each one is so different.
You have a nice set up but like someone mentioned you should have had a divider that wasn't see through. Your Betta fish were probably all flared up at each other. You can keep them in an aquarium, you can even put other fish in with them. The main thing is you have to make sure the tank mates won't hurt him and that he will like the tank mates. Betta fish are hard because each one is so different.
I'm sorry you have had so much trouble with your bettas. I just lost my 4 year old betta, Chip to old age and have always been a fan of Bettas.
Environment
First I would recommend you set up your tank. The 10 gallon should work fine. Fill it then treat the water I recommend Prime from sea chem. Wait a few minutes then you can add the heater which you want to keep right around 77. Try to keep the temperature as steady as possible in order to not stress the fish. So make sure the tank is not placed in direct sunlight/near a window/an outer wall where it would be suspect to temperature fluctuations. You should also take into consideration how noisy the area is you want your betta to be able to relax
You can then add the filter. If your looking to cycle the tank with fish you want to make sure to do plenty of water changes. I would recommend 25% everyday. What this does is it dilutes the toxins that naturally build up in the tank as a result of the nitrogen cycle. You want to keep this up for about a month which is enough time for your tank to cycle.
Adding fish
When it comes to introducing the fish make sure to float the bag/cup in the tank for at least 10 minutes giving the fish time to acclimate. You also want to make sure to not add the fish store water into the tank.
Food
In terms of food I used 70%basic floating pellets and 30%different types of freeze dried worms . I usually fill a small cup with water add as much food as your betta can consume in 2 minutes let the water/food sit for 2 minutes/ until its no longer floating then feed. This helps prevent problems that fish often develop as a result of taking in extra air while eating from the surface. After feeding cleaning up left over food can help keep ammonia levels down specially during the first month.
Environment
First I would recommend you set up your tank. The 10 gallon should work fine. Fill it then treat the water I recommend Prime from sea chem. Wait a few minutes then you can add the heater which you want to keep right around 77. Try to keep the temperature as steady as possible in order to not stress the fish. So make sure the tank is not placed in direct sunlight/near a window/an outer wall where it would be suspect to temperature fluctuations. You should also take into consideration how noisy the area is you want your betta to be able to relax
You can then add the filter. If your looking to cycle the tank with fish you want to make sure to do plenty of water changes. I would recommend 25% everyday. What this does is it dilutes the toxins that naturally build up in the tank as a result of the nitrogen cycle. You want to keep this up for about a month which is enough time for your tank to cycle.
Adding fish
When it comes to introducing the fish make sure to float the bag/cup in the tank for at least 10 minutes giving the fish time to acclimate. You also want to make sure to not add the fish store water into the tank.
Food
In terms of food I used 70%basic floating pellets and 30%different types of freeze dried worms . I usually fill a small cup with water add as much food as your betta can consume in 2 minutes let the water/food sit for 2 minutes/ until its no longer floating then feed. This helps prevent problems that fish often develop as a result of taking in extra air while eating from the surface. After feeding cleaning up left over food can help keep ammonia levels down specially during the first month.
Additional care
Try to keep your aquarium light on 12 hours off for 12. This helps replicate a normal day. Constant light can stress your Betta
Dedicate some time to interact with your fish even if its just sitting by the tank looking at him/her. They will learn to recognize you. When ever I use to walk up to Chips tank he would swim to me to say him.
If you have any questions/ need me to clarify don't hesitate to ask
Try to keep your aquarium light on 12 hours off for 12. This helps replicate a normal day. Constant light can stress your Betta
Dedicate some time to interact with your fish even if its just sitting by the tank looking at him/her. They will learn to recognize you. When ever I use to walk up to Chips tank he would swim to me to say him.
If you have any questions/ need me to clarify don't hesitate to ask
aqua_chem
Aquarium Advice Addict
It sounds like a combination of ammonia toxicity and melafix. You shouldn't use Melafix with any labyrinth fish, as it can be poisonous.
Also, never trust aquarium store employees. I can pretty much guarantee that he wasn't a chemist in any way, shape, or form, and a lot of the time they are either unknowledgeable or ill-informed. As a rule of thumb, only trust pet store employees as far as you can throw them, less so if they look particularly aerodynamic.
Also, never trust aquarium store employees. I can pretty much guarantee that he wasn't a chemist in any way, shape, or form, and a lot of the time they are either unknowledgeable or ill-informed. As a rule of thumb, only trust pet store employees as far as you can throw them, less so if they look particularly aerodynamic.
Thank you all so much. The divider is not the issue; they never really could tell what was going on on the other side. I did do some water changing, but not to the extent suggested by all you good folks. I barely had time to think; they went from perfect to seriously screwed up so fast! And of course I had to leave town for 28 hours. My "free" little guy is still alive. When I get home tonight I'll do a 3-gallon water change. I will look for the dechlorinator in the red bottle. I have the aquarium in my kitchen on my counter. I am constantly trying to interact with them. My beloved Precious Ramon (the one I had in a bowl) and I had a love relationship!!! I mourned when he died. I just knew he loved me! Only once a day there is commotion that might bum him out (when I'm making dinner). But I try to be careful. They did use test strips at PetSmart. I will forge ahead with daily water changes. How long should I do that? When can I add some fish to the other side (assuming my little guy lives)?
I just read Aqua-chem's response. I like your sense of humor! Should I buy some proper betta medicine, or just keep changing the water. How does ammonia build up when there are only 2 fish in the tank? I am most-decidedly NOT a chemist. My little guy is actually surfacing as we speak. I would love to be able to save him.
Mooshy - I just saw that you suggested I do daily water changes for a month. Holy crap I had no idea. It seems illogical to a dummy like me that a proper biological system could ever be established when you are changing the water constantly. I will read what you all suggested about cycling. There is not so much commotion on the surface that the fish couldn't breath right, but building bubble nests is another thing. That concerns me. What if I leave the divider in, (hopefully) keep a betta on one side with a couple buddies, and then place the filter on the other side, which would contain fish other than bettas (maybe three neons, or something like that)?
If nothing else, I hope you all appreciate my determination!!!!!
If nothing else, I hope you all appreciate my determination!!!!!
Mumma.of.two
Aquarium Advice Obsessed
I honestly don't think that two Bettas in 10g of water for 4 days could produce that much ammonia.... But with the stress if shipping, a tiny bit may have played a part in his death. My moneys on the melafix. Horrible, smelly stuff IMO. I would stay away from medications altogether. Fin Rot can usually be healed with just clean water.
Hers is the beginners guide if you haven't seen it
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...-to-Starting-a-Freshwater-Aquarium/Page1.html
Hers is the beginners guide if you haven't seen it
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...-to-Starting-a-Freshwater-Aquarium/Page1.html
Billbug68
Aquarium Advice Addict
I think you've got your share of good advice now, but I'll add a few things.
Since you only have the one betta now, I'd remove the divider if you can. Believe me, he'll be all over that tank, bettas do enjoy space.
You shouldn't have a problem with your filter, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If you're going to add tank mates for him, be sure to do your research first, I'd suggest asking on here, an make sure the tank has cycled first. Water changes will slow down the process of your cycle, but it's absolutely necessary when you already have fish in there. When adding tank mates, make sure to add a few every week so you don't see an ammonia spike or have any other problems. As far as my suggestions, of what's easy to find at petsmart or petco, I'd say a small school of harlequin rasbors or ember tetras, and a few otocinculis would look great. I have my female in a 10 gallon also, with 6 glowlight tetras, 4 otocinculis, and 3 red cherry shrimp. Again, it depends on your bettas personality, some wont tolerate any tank mates. Cheers to your new fish, and good luck!
Since you only have the one betta now, I'd remove the divider if you can. Believe me, he'll be all over that tank, bettas do enjoy space.
You shouldn't have a problem with your filter, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If you're going to add tank mates for him, be sure to do your research first, I'd suggest asking on here, an make sure the tank has cycled first. Water changes will slow down the process of your cycle, but it's absolutely necessary when you already have fish in there. When adding tank mates, make sure to add a few every week so you don't see an ammonia spike or have any other problems. As far as my suggestions, of what's easy to find at petsmart or petco, I'd say a small school of harlequin rasbors or ember tetras, and a few otocinculis would look great. I have my female in a 10 gallon also, with 6 glowlight tetras, 4 otocinculis, and 3 red cherry shrimp. Again, it depends on your bettas personality, some wont tolerate any tank mates. Cheers to your new fish, and good luck!
Yeah, but he would have to be able to pick himself off the bottom of the tank, first, poor thing. He looks so bad I can't believe he's still alive. This is the second day he won't even come up to eat.
And I'm still confused. Like Mumma said before you, it's hard to believe 2 fish could produce that much ammonia. I never let food fall to the bottom. And I can't totally blame the melafix. After all, I didn't add it until the fish were already sick. I can believe it didn't help and probably hurt, but it wasn't the root cause. At least I'm glad nobody said here that one can't put a betta in a filtered tank.
I bought the recommended water treatment by Prime last night and did a 3-gallon water change. I'll do it again today. I read the info about cycling and my head is spinning. Right now I'm also concerned that I'm losing 5 degrees during the night when the house gets colder. I have a bigger heater than I need, I don't understand why it's not holding the temp. constant. Although, who is holding the temp. constant in the wild for these fish? C'mon!!
One thing I forgot to mention at all here: I added Stability (bacteria) every day for the first six days the fish were in the tank. I don't know if that means anything.
And I'm still confused. Like Mumma said before you, it's hard to believe 2 fish could produce that much ammonia. I never let food fall to the bottom. And I can't totally blame the melafix. After all, I didn't add it until the fish were already sick. I can believe it didn't help and probably hurt, but it wasn't the root cause. At least I'm glad nobody said here that one can't put a betta in a filtered tank.
I bought the recommended water treatment by Prime last night and did a 3-gallon water change. I'll do it again today. I read the info about cycling and my head is spinning. Right now I'm also concerned that I'm losing 5 degrees during the night when the house gets colder. I have a bigger heater than I need, I don't understand why it's not holding the temp. constant. Although, who is holding the temp. constant in the wild for these fish? C'mon!!
One thing I forgot to mention at all here: I added Stability (bacteria) every day for the first six days the fish were in the tank. I don't know if that means anything.
Billbug68
Aquarium Advice Addict
I honestly don't think the ammonia could have built up that fast either... But it's probably a combination of everything together. Or the supplier could just have bad fish... who knows... How many watts is the heater that you have? Try putting it close to the filter so it gets mixed through the tank well.
Hobgob
Aquarium Advice Addict
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2011
- Messages
- 1,893
Mavi said:
Nature gods the temp steady and maybe you need a bigger heater? You can have two 30 gallon tanks. It need a different watt heater for the two o them. The heater doesn't depend on the size of aquarium. More so the room temp. If you room temperature is low then a normal heater will not be able to keep it up.
I can't see what voltage it is, but I had it for a 20-gallon in he past. I'm going to start cranking it up a notch when I go to bed to accommodate. It has a lot more to give on the dial. I'll by a new one if I have to. Why not? More money, more money, more money ...... (spoken lyrically)
No way I can blame the supplier. These fish were so glorious when I received them. This little guy probably would have been happy as a clam to live out his life in my 2-gallon bowl. But noooooooooo ... I had to put him in the death tank!!!!! I am just so furious with myself that I didn't anticipate this all. I feel like such an idiot.
I pride myself in being the master of my domain, if you know what I mean. My dogs live like kings.
No way I can blame the supplier. These fish were so glorious when I received them. This little guy probably would have been happy as a clam to live out his life in my 2-gallon bowl. But noooooooooo ... I had to put him in the death tank!!!!! I am just so furious with myself that I didn't anticipate this all. I feel like such an idiot.
I pride myself in being the master of my domain, if you know what I mean. My dogs live like kings.
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