I need help - my tank is full of gunk

[callisto9]

Here's my info:

20G high planted tank.
Dose 1ml flourish comprehensive once a week.
Prime water conditioner.
Fish: seven glowlight tetras, one fancy guppy, three Japan blue guppies, one dwarf gourami, two peacock gudgeons, three nerite snails, one mystery snail
9 gallon WC one a week.
One full-spectrum 15W 8000K T8 bulb. on 10 hours a day.

I feed once a day. A pinch (less than a pea-sized amount) of New Life Spectrum - .5mm sinking pellets.

When I clean, TONS of gunk gets thrown up in to the water. TONS of it. There's TONS of gunk in the substrate and all over the plants, driftwood, etc.

The gunk appears to be poo and... well, gunk.

Any thoughts? I've cut down on what I used to feed, but it just doesn't seem like I'm overfeeding.

Here's an example of what I'm dealing with. This is four hours after doing a 50% WC with no feeding today.

 

[Slade]

You didn't say how many / what types of plants, my guess is during PWC you may be stirring up the substrate too much.

 

[callisto9]

Amm: .25ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Phosphates: .25ppm

 

[CrashCourse]

Here's my info:

20G high planted tank.
Dose 1ml flourish comprehensive once a week.
Prime water conditioner.
Fish: seven glowlight tetras, one fancy guppy, three Japan blue guppies, one dwarf gourami, two peacock gudgeons, three nerite snails, one mystery snail
9 gallon WC one a week.
One full-spectrum 15W 8000K T8 bulb. on 10 hours a day.

I feed once a day. A pinch (less than a pea-sized amount) of New Life Spectrum - .5mm sinking pellets.

When I clean, TONS of gunk gets thrown up in to the water. TONS of it. There's TONS of gunk in the substrate and all over the plants, driftwood, etc.

The gunk appears to be poo and... well, gunk.

Any thoughts? I've cut down on what I used to feed, but it just doesn't seem like I'm overfeeding.

Here's an example of what I'm dealing with. This is four hours after doing a 50% WC with no feeding today.

I just had exactly the same thing! It looks like a dirty tank, like you feed waaaaay too much and never clean the tank (which isn't the case). It's loose and fluffy and gets everywhere right?

I don't know what it is (algae of some sort maybe?) or what causes it. But, I do know it just recently went away. The only things I changed were, I started putting poly fill in the filter to catch whatever gunk it could, and not just cycle it back in the tank. (Cleaned the poly fill out a few days later, and it was BLACK! really gross. ) and I started adding liquid co2. I really suspect it is algae, because what else can get all over the tank like that when it isn't just run of the mill gunk? Anyway, between those two things and a good weekly water change, it's cleared up pretty well.

Edit: I thought I had a better picture if it, but I couldn't find the one I was looking for. You can kinda see it on the plants in the background of this one, and how cloudy the water is. Then the second picture was taken a few minutes ago, maybe a week or so later.

 

[azmodan]

Maybe a day or two a week should be designated as "no-feed days". Also, I agree with the poly fill suggestion if you don't do that already. That stuff will catch a TON of gunk, just make sure to rinse it every week or so!

Just out of curiosity what's your filtration like?

 

[thomasina]

If it the gray-brown slim, I had it too. I cleaned the filter (only the plastic parts) under the filter. The rest was washed in tank water that would thrown out from a WC. It took another week, but the filter cleared it up all by itself. I also started using a sponge that goes around the bottom of the intake tube. It gets wased out one ever 3-4 days under the tap and squeezed out WELL!! Hope this helps.

 

[callisto9]

I just had exactly the same thing! It looks like a dirty tank, like you feed waaaaay too much and never clean the tank (which isn't the case). It's loose and fluffy and gets everywhere right?

I don't know what it is (algae of some sort maybe?) or what causes it. But, I do know it just recently went away. The only things I changed were, I started putting poly fill in the filter to catch whatever gunk it could, and not just cycle it back in the tank. (Cleaned the poly fill out a few days later, and it was BLACK! really gross. ) and I started adding liquid co2. I really suspect it is algae, because what else can get all over the tank like that when it isn't just run of the mill gunk? Anyway, between those two things and a good weekly water change, it's cleared up pretty well.

Edit: I thought I had a better picture if it, but I couldn't find the one I was looking for. You can kinda see it on the plants in the background of this one, and how cloudy the water is. Then the second picture was taken a few minutes ago, maybe a week or so later.

Yes, that's it exactly. I have the same stuff. I know some of it's poo, but a lot of it isn't. It just looks like brown fluff.

I don't think I overfeed and I definitely clean the tank! I even changed out the filter, too, though I do rinse it out each week (lightly, in bucket water).

My water is always clear, so I'm perplexed.

Thanks for your input!

 

[callisto9]

Maybe a day or two a week should be designated as "no-feed days". Also, I agree with the poly fill suggestion if you don't do that already. That stuff will catch a TON of gunk, just make sure to rinse it every week or so!

Just out of curiosity what's your filtration like?

I am going to start doing "fasting Fridays". I feel bad, but I don't know what else to try.

I will also get some poly fill. Just stuff some in there... in front of the filter?

If it the gray-brown slim, I had it too. I cleaned the filter (only the plastic parts) under the filter. The rest was washed in tank water that would thrown out from a WC. It took another week, but the filter cleared it up all by itself. I also started using a sponge that goes around the bottom of the intake tube. It gets wased out one ever 3-4 days under the tap and squeezed out WELL!! Hope this helps.

Thank you for your input! I don't see a ton of stuff in my filter as of right now.

 

[maestromad]

I too have had the exact same issue! The way I've managed to reduce it was by changing one of the filter pads, (I'd had them a year) and since then much less gunk but still a fair bit lol

 

[callisto9]

I changed my filter pad, but it's not making any difference.

 

[phin]

What type of filtration do you have? With all the waste settlement at the bottom of the tank you might not have enought water movement circulating, especially at the lower levels. See if you can upgrade your filter, add a second filter, possibly extend the intake to within a few inches of the bottom of the tank, or add a small powerhead/circulation pump like a koralia nano.

 

[callisto9]

What type of filtration do you have? With all the waste settlement at the bottom of the tank you might not have enought water movement circulating, especially at the lower levels. See if you can upgrade your filter, add a second filter, possibly extend the intake to within a few inches of the bottom of the tank, or add a small powerhead/circulation pump like a koralia nano.

I have the Marineland Penguin 150HOB which does 150gph.

It has two intakes, one that's about 2 inches from the substrate and one that's about 3 inches from the top of the water line.

The filter is about 5 months old and was purchased brand new.

Thanks for the input. At this point, I'm trying to figure out what exactly all the gunk IS. I think my filtration is ok, but where is all that crap coming from?!

 

[Rivercats]

It's just a build up of detris and probably alittle algae in there and it's all binding up. If your patient you can get this cleared up. It is going to take doing a couple WC's a week but before doing them stir as much of it up in the water column as you can so you can keep sucking it out. I also believe if you start dosing with a liquid carbon along with aggressive stirring up and sucking out of the gump you will eventually get it all. I had a tank a couple years back that got this same buildup. It took a month or so if I remember right of continually stirring up the stuff (sometimes every day so the filter could keep pulling some out) so WC's and the filters could remove it. I had to do alot of filter cleaning during this process and removed a couple plants that seemed to be a problem with it collecting on it (ambulia). It won't clean up in a WC or two but it can be cleaned up if your diligent. Plus consider daily dosing of Excel or one of the liquid carbons.

 

[callisto9]

It's just a build up of detris and probably alittle algae in there and it's all binding up. If your patient you can get this cleared up. It is going to take doing a couple WC's a week but before doing them stir as much of it up in the water column as you can so you can keep sucking it out. I also believe if you start dosing with a liquid carbon along with aggressive stirring up and sucking out of the gump you will eventually get it all. I had a tank a couple years back that got this same buildup. It took a month or so if I remember right of continually stirring up the stuff (sometimes every day so the filter could keep pulling some out) so WC's and the filters could remove it. I had to do alot of filter cleaning during this process and removed a couple plants that seemed to be a problem with it collecting on it (ambulia). It won't clean up in a WC or two but it can be cleaned up if your diligent. Plus consider daily dosing of Excel or one of the liquid carbons.

I want to get this under control before I start dosing the nutrients I bought.

I do try and stir up the water/debris.... there's just so much!!!

And yes, some plants seem to be like glue for this stuff, though it's really everywhere...

I do rinse the filter pad every week in tank water (that's already out of the tank).

Would Excel Comprehensive be OK to dose?

I'm very patient.

Thanks RC!

 

[bettagirl]

Hi Erin, It's Sherry

This is a site I used to frequent years back when maintaining my low-tech tanks. I decided to pop over here to see if I could find out more info on what's going on with your tank and if I could help. Based on what you've posted, here's some ideas on what you might be facing.

- khuli's are fragile fish to acclimate. If the fish store had just gotten them in, it's possible they were just weak and too stressed to adjust in such a short period of time. Another possibility is that khuli's are bottom feeders. If you were reducing the amount of food you were feeding the fish significantly so that no food was falling to the ground then they wouldn't have had enough to eat. Both factors could have been contributing.

- I believe there are a couple of main factors that are causing high ammonia levels that is leading to your algae and fish death problems. Since you are not feeding your fish much now, how do you clean your substrate? If you are sifting through it and causing a lot of debris into the water, then this could be the issue. It's best to use a siphon and sift gently into the soil, so that only the top part of the gravel is uplifted (while keeping the siphon tube in the soil) and slowly back away so the debris is mostly sucked up and not released into the water. The debris you see in your tank is most likely debris that has been released into the water and not siphoned away, then settles on the plants, rocks and top of the gravel.

The best thing to do at this point, imho, is to do a significant water change now (eg. 30-40%) to remove the excess ammonia, and possibly over the next couple of days until the debris is gone. Focus on running the siphon along the top of the plants, rocks to suck up any loose debris, without letting it fly into the water, and then finish with a gravel cleaning using the method I mentioned above. The follow up with less frequent, smaller water changes every week until ammonia is back to 0.

Avoid doing large, frequent water changes after this as it can cause too drastic changes in water parameters for fish that stresses them out and can cause fish deaths (eg. big jumps in pH without letting the fish acclimate)

Feed your fish 2x a day no more than they can eat within 10 mins. Use flake food that stays on the water longer so they can get it before it sinks.

This how-to for low-tech tanks might be helpful. It's a summary of Tom Barr's low-tech method (he also is a high-tech guru, but has years of experience and good advice on both methods) This guide focuses on what to do with if you're using non-soil tanks and dosing ferts occasionally.

I hope this isn't too preachy and is somewhat helpful!!

 

[bettagirl]

ps- the guide I linked to recommends very infrequent water changes, but only for fishless tanks. You'll want to do them weekly to monthly, depending on your fish load.

 

[callisto9]

Hey Sherry! No, it's not too preachy at all. I'm glad you're here.

I do semi-regular parameter testing and the most I've ever noticed was .25ppm when testing for ammonia.

I've cleaned the substrate in the following ways:

* Stick the siphon INTO the gravel and suck up crud
* Wave siphon above water and attempt to suck up crud

I have two different siphons. This one and this one.

When I siphon, I don't kick too much gunk into the water, but when I pour water in, I do. My goal is to get that stuff OUT, so sometimes I do wave the siphon around to get it moving so it can be sucked up into the filter.

I cannot clean much of the gravel since there are plants in it and rocks/wood covering another fair amount. The rocks I can take out, but the driftwood and plants I cannot.

I do a 9 (out of 20) water change each week. I used to do 6, but upped it when I saw more gunk.

I've always fed the New Life Spectrum pellets as I've had some bottom-dwelling fish and I've always fed just one time per day. I feed one tiny pinch of food. My fear in using flakes is that not all the fish would get fed. The gudgeons (though I only have one left now) do not come to the surface for food.

Thanks again Shelly for all your input. Much appreciated! I'll read the link tonight when I get home.

 

[bettagirl]

Those are both good siphons to get a good vaccuming up of crud in the gravel. You really don't want to swirl the crud around though as that will just put it into the water column. If ammonia is above 0 then it is toxic to fish and most likely the cause of your excessive algae.

btw, an airline tube is a good siphon to use to remove all the debris and loose algae on your plants and rocks without sucking up too much water. Then use one of the siphons to do a light gravel clean.

It was fun to come back here and look at my very first post! Such a long time ago... boy do I miss my 75g walstad tank & gouramis.

___________________________________

edited to add: this video of siphoning that might be helpful...

I am not really sure what type of siphon he's using, but he's doing the technique I recommend trying:

If you swirl around the debris, you're depending on your filter to circulate and clear up all the water before the debris settles. I think that is not happening, and it's the settled debris that you're seeing on everything. See if doing this method, and using an airline tubing to suck off loose debris helps

 

[Rivercats]

Yes you should still use your Comprehensive since the plants still need nutrients.

 

[bettagirl]

When I siphon, I don't kick too much gunk into the water, but when I pour water in, I do. My goal is to get that stuff OUT, so sometimes I do wave the siphon around to get it moving so it can be sucked up into the filter.

I cannot clean much of the gravel since there are plants in it and rocks/wood covering another fair amount. The rocks I can take out, but the driftwood and plants I cannot.

I do a 9 (out of 20) water change each week. I used to do 6, but upped it when I saw more gunk.

Sorry, it's like I didn't even read this part of your post.

When you refill the tank, try pouring the water slowly over your hand, cupped toward the inside glass so it doesn't disrupt the substrate. That may be the source of the debris.

To start the siphon, try using your thumb on the tube end outside of the tank, then fill the siphon with water and hold it up above your head and the other end as far down as possible so the air bubbles out through the top of the siphon. When all the air bubbles are gone, slowly lower the siphon into the tank at an angle until if fills with water then release your thumb at the other end. This should start the siphon without having to shake it inside your tank.

To start the siphon on the air line tube, place one end of the tube far into the tank so it'll stay, and use a bulb aspirator at the other end over the bucket to draw as much water in as you can. It usually only takes the tube filled with 1/2 or so of water to start the siphon.

9 out of 20 gallons is 45% of your tank water, and is really too much to be taking out on a frequent basis. Ideally, you should be shooting for no more than 4 gallons (20%). Using the airline tubing to remove the debris will help a lot as you can maximize how much debris you can suck up without taking out much water. The airline doesn't work at all to siphon the gravel though, so you'll still want to use the regular siphon to get around the plants and rocks to the exposed gravel. You really shouldn't move rocks/wood around as this will only kick up debris more. If you do move stuff around occasionally, it's best to let things settle for at least 1/2 hour and then do the siphon and a little larger water change.


I really think once you switch to smaller water changes, remove the debris and feed your fish enough... the ammonia will lower and the fish will be less stressed, and the plants will be able to out compete the algae better.