Ick - Treat the whole tank?

[Nonie]

Hi there,

I think I'm dealing with Ick. =( I noticed a white spot a couple of days ago on a cardinal tetra and wondered about it, so have already ordered Aquarium Solutions Ich-X from Aquarium Coop. It should be here in a day or two.

My question is should I just go ahead and treat the whole tank? Yes, right? Are all my critters (see #5) okay with that?

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

A cardinal tetra has a white spot on one fin.
An ember tetra has multiple white spots on its fins and body.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 0-5
pH - 8.2
These are very consistent readings, tested every morning before feeding. On weekends in the afternoon, before feedings.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

29 gallon. I set up a 5 gallon on 4/2/18. I transferred everything over to the 29 gallon (filter media, substrate, plants, décor, fish) about 5/11/18. It also has an active sponge purchased from angelsplus.com and some sludge from the filter at Aquarium Solutions.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

Aquaclear 50 HOB and a 4" cube sponge filter with an airline in it.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

cardinal tetra - 12 - ~1" each, one about 1-1/2" added over the weekend
ember tetra - 5 ~ 1" each added a week & half ago (one died or disappeared with a water change)
corydora Weitzmani - 3 ~1-1/2" each added last weekend
bristlenose pleco - 1 ~2" added mid April
half-moon betta male added 4/2
3 nerite snails - one mid April, two last weekend
a few miscellaneous rams horn snails (arrived with plants & sponge)

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Last Thursday 5/17, 30%, vacuumed the gravel and sand. First one since setup on 5/11. Was doing daily/every other day in the 5 gallon while going through the ammonia spike.


7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

See question 5. Acclimated according to bag. Floated for about 15 minutes, then added tank water for 10 minutes, then put them in.
You know, I was really thinking I should quarantine and medicate according to Cory's regime at Aquarium Coop... I always get in trouble when I don't listen to that little voice.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

See above questions

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

Omega One Betta Buffet pellets; New Life Spectrum Grow .5mm sinking pellets; Hikari Algae Wafers; Hikari Sinking wafers (added this weekend); Hikari frozen Daphnia; HIKARI San Francisco Bay frozen bloodworms and tropical multi-pack; zucchini.

Sigh.

 

[Delapool]

Yes, for white spot you will need to treat the entire tank. I'd start with a half dose (usually needed anyways if you have scaleless fish) on the meds to allow fish to adapt. Does it say what the ingredients are?

 

[Nonie]

It says: Contains:*A proprietary formula of water and formaldehyde (< 3%)

 

[coralbandit]

You may also want Malachite green to go with the formaldehyde[formalin].
The 2 in combination are the most effective treatment of ich ..
Malachite Green | Kordon
Know your enemy ;
https://web.archive.org/web/20160313202109/http://skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius
^^best ich link and info source on all things aquarium^^
+1 to half dose first day . If cories are ok then go full day 2 and keep your eye on them.

 

[Nonie]

What will the cories do if they're not OK?

And what do I do if they're not? Partial water change or remove them?

 

[coralbandit]

Water changes and carbon will remove the formalin .
Cories act crazy when normal so tough to say how it may effect them.
It is scale less fish that many fear using meds on .I have used formalin and MG on my clown loaches many times as they are 15 years old..
1/2 dose day 1 then full day 2 if cories aren't looking bad for the med..
I have never had a problem using meds properly with my cories or scale less fish but we should always be careful with meds.

 

[Nonie]

So all I have is a Petco 45 minutes away. Would they be likely to have the malachite? Or do I have enough time to order it online? I would probably get it Friday that way if I'm lucky. The ich x should be here tomorrow or Thursday.

What can I do in the meantime?

 

[Delapool]

Can’t help on ordering but keep an eye on gills / fish behaviour after dosing. Increasing aeration at water surface to improve oxygen flow may also help.

 

[Nonie]

This morning pretty much all of the tetras have white spots. I did about a 40% water change yesterday. No sign of spots on the pleco, betta, or cories.

The tracking info says the ich x will be here tomorrow. Biting my nails...

 

[Nonie]

I found the ingredients to Ich-X: water, formaldehyde (<5%), methanol (<2%), malachite green chloride (<0.1%)

 

[Angellove78]

If the spots are still on all the fish you added I'd take them out and put them into another tank. If you don't see any spots on other fish you might have a chance to save your main tank before they reproduce. And ich-x will stain your tank(just a fyi). Too help things. Vacuum the bottom along with water changes daily, and keep the lights off. Dark as possible. I use aquarium salt for ich, along with maintenance as stated above, but every other day with 2-50% water changes and I use heat in a 10g. Hospital tank. Good luck to you!

 

[Nonie]

The spots are on almost all of the tetras this morning. I think one of the corydoras and possibly the BN. Don't see any on my betta.

I have a glass tank. Will that stain as well? I have a feeling it's too late since the ember tetras and the cardinal tetras came from different stores. So I'll have to treat the whole tank or take all of the fish out and let it go without fish for a while so the ich dies off. But I don't want to stress everybody by trying to net them.

I'm slowly raising the temp of the tank during the day today with a goal of 86 F. I increased the flow on the HOB.

 

[Delapool]

Tbh I would leave temp where it is since you will be treating with meds?. Generally pick either meds treatment or heat treatment due to stress / both removing O2 from water. Would start treatment with meds you have now.

Plenty of threads with meds, salt or heat treatment working - they all work but all carry risks.

Meds are risky on young fish in new tanks ime. These dyes, etc a fine line between killing disease before killing fish. Rapidly soaked up by any carbon / organic detritus in tank so water changes before hand help. Proven method, any staining fades over time (except carpet lol).

Salt risky with low ph / scaleless fish (versus say goldfish where salt a good option as they are more cold water fish and heat treatment stresses them more) however generally most fish including cories seem fine on short treatments and increasing salt gradually to let them adjust.

Heat treatment speeds up ich cycle but it can’t breed (most times) above 86F. Likely to get worse before it gets better due to this. Must have absolutely no cold spots in tank. Slower method. Higher risk of bacterial infections ime. Fish generally fine with the heat after a day or two (many times on summer holidays my tank goes above this).

In all methods, imo pick a method and start ASAP.

 

[Angellove78]

Yes with ich-x you don't have to use heat. You will just make it worse right now with no meds. And the stain will be on the silicone part of tank and air lines. Sometimes decorations. But, it better than having all the fish die from the secondary infection along with ich. ( not pretty). Anyways, Delapool is right, pick one for less stress. More stress just invites parasites to have a feast on your fish because of their immune system getting weaker from stress. Just to keep in mine. The best advice is to research what your dealing with so you understand. Ich can get out of control If not dealt with asap. Is why I mentioned salt. But water changes and vacuuming will help till you get the meds.

 

[coralbandit]

I found the ingredients to Ich-X: water, formaldehyde (<5%), methanol (<2%), malachite green chloride (<0.1%)

Good stuff.
The 'natural treatments 'are most effective if you spot the disease early enough to have the luxury of time..
With the infestation now spreading you don't have time IMO .
The directions for med should say change water so you might as well until it comes .
The ich falls off the fish where it multiplies ,possibly by the thousands and then re infest the surviving fish..Vacuuming the substrate will remove the ich that have fallen if you are thorough..Removal is best and offers the meds a better chance to kill what remains .Clean water helps the meds work better also so plus one on water changes .
Hope you read the link I offered...

 

[Nonie]

Yes, I did read the whole article from that link. Thank you.

I am getting lots of conflicting advice on the whole situation. I think you are right that I will have to go with the meds. I wish now that I had gone to the Petco 45 mins away and gotten some aquarium salt. Argh.

I was told to take the snails out first because the meds will kill them. Will they carry the ich back into the tank with them when they return?

 

[coralbandit]

The snails should not be able to carry the ich for more then a week or two.
Ich needs a fish to survive ,so place snails in a tank [or what ever] with no fish and it will die.

 

[Nonie]

Okay.

Feed while medicating?

Blackout while medicating? Just lights off or towel over the tank?

 

[coralbandit]

Feed normal.
Ich does not have eyes so the light does not matter one little bit .

 

[Angellove78]

The lights off will lower stress levels for fish.