Ick?

[bill0298]

I bought a Blonde Naso Tang from my lfs the other day and put him in the qt tank. Once I put him in the tank, I noticed that he had some small white specks. Does this look like ick? The lfs says that it is not, but I'm not too sure. Should I go ahead and do hyposalinity? Thanks.....

 

[dralarms]

Appears to be ick to me, however there alot more exp. people around these parts that will be able to say for sure. I would start hypo, remember not to go down more that .01 a day, Also if he is swimming well and does not appear to be in much distress I would try a fw dip, match the ph and temp of your water and let him swim around in it for 2 to 3 min MAX. Do you have access to a small tank to use as a QT? If so after the fw dip I would put him in the small QT, clean out the other one (get rid of any ick laying on the bottom), and then put him back in to the regular QT.

 

[steve-s]

When treating with >>hyposalinity<<, the salinity of the water can actually be dropped much faster than that with little stress to the animal. The entire process can be done in under two days. Just be absolutely sure you monitor alk/pH during the drop and throughout the entire treatment process. If you have a refractometer, try to target 14 ppt as the treatment level.

Judging by the pic above it's not overly appearant the fish is infested but looks more like damage from transport/netting. I would definately make sure the fish is in a proper QT where it can be treated if necessary, it could still easily turn out to be parasitic. If the fish was not introduced to the QT before the main display and this does turn out to be C. irritans, then all fish in the main must be treated as well.

Are the blemish's raised off the fish or does it appear to be just lost color similar to scale loss

Cheers
Steve

 

[bill0298]

Are the blemish's raised off the fish or does it appear to be just lost color similar to scale loss

The blemishes on his body are not raised, but just under his top fin it looks like there might be a sugar grain or two and also on his left and right fins.

The spots are much more noticable when the Naso is darker. Also I noticed last night shortly after I posted there is a spot about 1/8" diameter behind his left fin that has lost its color, this spot is only noticable when he is dark. The other spots can still be seen when he is lighter.

Judging by the pic above it's not overly appearant the fish is infested but looks more like damage from transport/netting. I would definately make sure the fish is in a proper QT where it can be treated if necessary, it could still easily turn out to be parasitic. If the fish was not introduced to the QT before the main display and this does turn out to be C. irritans, then all fish in the main must be treated as well

Right now I have him in a 20 gal long tank with some macro algae for him to munch on. He is swimming around and eating with no problems. I have not introduced him to my reef tank.

Should I watch him for a few more days before I react with hyposalinity or medications? Hyposalinity is good for ich, does it work on anything else? If I needed to treat, would the copper stuff from Seachem be a better all around cure?

Thanks....

 

[steve-s]

The spots are much more noticable when the Naso is darker. Also I noticed last night shortly after I posted there is a spot about 1/8" diameter behind his left fin that has lost its color, this spot is only noticable when he is dark. The other spots can still be seen when he is lighter.

Still not entirely convinced it's parasitic but I would definately be prepared. Blemish marks can often appear on the fins and have no relation to health. In general terms they are more akin to bruising. Parasites do tend to show up better in lower light conditions though. The fish needs to stay in the QT for a good 4 weeks so you have time to make an informed decision. By the looks of it, velvet can be ruled out for now and C. irritans will not kill the fish unless heavily infested to the point bacterial infections set in or the gills become affected. If C. irritans, the spots will leave the fish when they need to encyst and multiply. If they return, it's definately C. irritans and treatment should begin. As long as the water parameters in the QT are good, the fish will not really be harmed by waiting.

Should I watch him for a few more days before I react with hyposalinity or medications? Hyposalinity is good for ich, does it work on anything else? If I needed to treat, would the copper stuff from Seachem be a better all around cure?

Cupramine is definately a better all 'round treatment when dealing with protozoan parasites (main exception being Brooklynella hostilis) but I would not suggest any treatment take place prophylacticly. Hyposalinity is still a better treatment in terms of C. irritans as it tends to be the least stressful on the fish when performed properly. There are other types of parasitic aflictions that hypo will not hinder in the least.

Cheers
Steve

 

[bill0298]

Thanks for the responses. After watching for several days, I have seen more white dots on the Naso. I am waiting for a refractometer, it should be here by Saturday or so and then I think I will do hyposalinity on the two fish. I also had a Porcupine Puffer that I purchased the same time that I bought the Naso, he also has several spots on his fins which didn't show up until a couple days ago... Unfortunally I had to put the puffer in a tank with a small trigger that is healthy, now do I need to do hyposalinity on all three fish??

 

[dralarms]

Yes you need to QT all fish, check to see if the puffer can handle it.

 

[bill0298]

The Trigger, Naso, and the Puffer should be able to handle hyposalinity... Right?

 

[quarryshark]

Yes, but inverts can't. Are you plannig to treat in qt?

 

[mfuchs]

I also just discovered that my Naso tang and blue tang have ick. They are both in a 180 gal tank with inverts. What is my best course of action to treat the tank?

Thanks,

Marcel

 

[Atari]

I also just discovered that my Naso tang and blue tang have ick. They are both in a 180 gal tank with inverts. What is my best course of action to treat the tank?

Thanks,

Marcel

Your best course would be to remove and treat the fish in a separate QT tank. Any attempts to treat in the main will either amount to nothing or worse could kill your inverts.

 

[mfuchs]

Do I need to worry about the other fish getting the ick? I have a Flame Angle, Coral Beauty, Clown, Domino, a few Purple reef fish and a gobi.

Also, what do you recommend I treat them with? Should I use a fresh water dip or a chemical?

Thanks,

Marcel

 

[Atari]

Unfortunately, all your fish are at risk and will need to be treated. The only real way to get the parasite out of your main tank for good is to leave it fallow for 4-6 weeks.

Hyposalinity would be the least stressful treatment for the fish.

To remain parasite-free you need to QT all new purchases before adding them to the main tank.

 

[mfuchs]

The only real way to get the parasite out of your main tank for good is to leave it fallow for 4-6 weeks.

What do you mean by fallow?

So my best course of action would be to remove all my fish and place them in a QT and do a Hyposalinity treatment on them? Do I do this in a separate container or do I do it to the whole QT tank. How long do I do it for? Should I do a Fresh water dip?

 

[quarryshark]

Fallow means fishless. Inverts, coral, etc stay in the main. They are not hosts for the parasite. The fallow period allow the parasite to go through its life cycle and die off due to the lack of fish hosts.
Here is an excellent article on the hypo process.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html
You can't treat the main, your other life and biological filter cannot take the low salinity.
I am at the tail end of an ich treatment and had to do the same thing.
See my stock below.

 

[bill0298]

Update: I have been at the hospital since Friday morning with the birth of my first son!! However, after returning Sunday evening... I found the Naso and the trigger both laying on the bottom of the tank breathing very heavily. This afternoon I found both of the fish dead.. The naso had white spots, which some were raised and some were not raised ALL over along with several black spots.... The trigger had the same, just not as many white spots... Right now the puffer is still alive, but breathing very heavily. He also has white specks all over.. I received my refractometer Saturday and I have started to bring the Salinity down, but it might be too little too late.....

 

[dralarms]

Congradulations on the birth, and sorry for the loss of your fish.

 

[steve-s]

I would be sure what you are treating is C. irritans. For the fish to have succumb so quickly, I would be more suspect of marine velvet instead. If the parasite is misidentified, hypo will have no affect on velvet, only copper will. 7 days is far too quick a time for C. irritans to have done enough damage to kill a fish unless already heavily infested, especially when you say there are only a few spots.

Cheers
Steve

 

[dralarms]

I have to agree with Steve. Ick while deadly is not a "fast killer" unless the fish is already in a weakened state. To kill in 7 days I think the fish should have looked like you had taken it out and dumped a salt shaker on it and dropped it back in the tank.

 

[bill0298]

sick fish

Could it be a combination of the two parasites? I have already started hypo to treat the ick, but like you guys said I might be treating the wrong disease...
On a lighter note, I can't belive that I have gone all this time without a refractometer.... They are much easier to use and much more accurate..

Here's a pic of the puffer....