ID Disease!! White bumps on Puffer

[dfabrikant]

Ok first I got the dog face puffer on Fri, noticed about 4 white spots on yellow fins, and he has been scratching on rocks so bad his body is covered in scratches so I assumed it was ich and started adding garlic in the diet, then yesterday I started to treat water with Ich Guard by Jungle. Today woke up still had the few white spots on fins, looked ok, about 30min later I walked over and all these white bumps had come out everywhere, all over his body! what is it?could this be why hes scratching? is it related to ich? or should I be treating with something else?

SG 1.025
Temp 80
PH 8.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 1.0
Nitrite 0

 

[ccCapt]

Welcome to AA.

Got a few questions first. How big is the tank and how long has it been running? How much live rock do you have?

I can't tell from the pics, but it sounds like ich with the spots and rubbing. The fish should be removed from the tank and treated in a seperate quarantine tank.
The last pic almost looks like the skin is sloughing off.....

 

[melosu58]

I agree with Larry that if it has white specks like sugar grains then it is ick and needs to be QT and treated with hypo if possible. I`ll post some ick links when I get home.

 

[dfabrikant]

Welcome to AA.

Got a few questions first. How big is the tank and how long has it been running? How much live rock do you have?

I can't tell from the pics, but it sounds like ich with the spots and rubbing. The fish should be removed from the tank and treated in a seperate quarantine tank.
The last pic almost looks like the skin is sloughing off.....

I have a 75gal tank, I have lots of live rock do not know in pounds, its been running for over 5 months now, I have a Clown Trigger, Eng. Goby, Lawn Mower Blenny, Blue Damsel, Dog Face Puffer, Valentini Puffer, saltwater crabs, urchin, choc chip starfish. Because he has been put in the tank already im going to have to treat all fish, like I said I started ich guard already, but I have seen lots of cases or ich but to me it just didnt look like it, they look like bumps coming out of the skin..I also do not have a QT tank so im trying treatment thats invert safe.
If you are referring to the face, thats his color, he was in a tank with no rock until I got him, so its new for him to start scratching.
does ich appear to be like this? it doesnt look like grains of salt at all. and how come if he was covered in it all other fish have no signs?

 

[roka64]

For one thing, you have some fish that don't belong in a 75 Gallon tank (Trigger and dog face). Unless your blenny is eating frozen food, he more than likely will starve once the algae is gone.
What are your water parameters?

 

[dfabrikant]

For one thing, you have some fish that don't belong in a 75 Gallon tank (Trigger and dog face). Unless your blenny is eating frozen food, he more than likely will starve once the algae is gone.
What are your water parameters?

I did know that when I purchased them, I am wanting to upgrade, right now they are small, so as they get bigger, ill make the switch. The blenny has lots of algae and when I clean the tank I never clean the back and months now, theres never been no food, I even put brown seaweed algae in as well.
SG 1.025
Temp 80
PH 8.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 1.0
Nitrite 0

 

[roka64]

Ok, cool.
Are those bumps just scratches?

 

[dfabrikant]

Ok, cool.
Are those bumps just scratches?

No, he has alot of scratches bec thats what he does all day, poor thing...they seem like bumps under then skin, then those white bumps, seem to come out....is this part of the ich process?

 

[melosu58]

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

 

[dfabrikant]

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Thanks! Great article!

 

[dfabrikant]

ok update...still lots of bumps! SOMEONE HELP!! lol ...I was able to get more photos that are less blurry. As noted ive already treated with Ich guard thinking thats what it may be, still adding garlic to the food, did a water change, yesterday did a formalin dip for 30min, nothing is improving, nothing is getting worse, no fish is infected with whatever it is. Brought the pic to the LFS and they said doesnt look like ich but doesnt know what it is either. But Puffer is very very itchy, scratches alot! I also treated tank water with Melafix because Trigger had bites all over him (finally found trigger a new home) ....I am sure the puffer is very stressed and tired of all these treatments, im trying to figure it out the best I can. Luckily puffer still eats good and is swimming around. But im out of options on what to do???

 

[theyoungaquariest]

Its marine ich, your going to have to set up a quarantine tank go to this link, the thread is about what you will need to setup the quarantine tank
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f101/quarantine-tank-104858.html
-you dont need to cycle it or put any live rock in, as long as u use aged saltwater

 

[dfabrikant]

Its marine ich, your going to have to set up a quarantine tank go to this link, the thread is about what you will need to setup the quarantine tank
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f101/quarantine-tank-104858.html
-you dont need to cycle it or put any live rock in, as long as u use aged saltwater

Well I had thought it was ich, but why doesnt it get worse and why doesnt any fish have it, its been a week since it came out. Im also being told by other sites and my lfs its not ich! im confused

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f101/quarantine-tank-104858.html
-you dont need to cycle it or put any live rock in, as long as u use aged saltwater

Just want to point out that using aged saltwater doesn't eliminate the fact that the tank WILL cycle if there is no biological filtration in it. Without a biofilter of some sort that's seeded with bacteria, you'll have to keep up on the water changes to keep the ammonia levels down.

The original pictures didn't look like ich to me, but these latest ones are starting to make me think it could be. It may not be ich, but it sure looks like some parasitic problem. Whatever the problem, I'd get it in a QT now... cycled or not. Your other fish may not be having an issue yet because their health is better.

 

[melosu58]

Do these white spots fall off and then reappear?

 

[dfabrikant]

Do these white spots fall off and then reappear?

Yes im guessing they are falling off, they come and go, less or more sometimes, but you can not rub them off

 

[melosu58]

Then it is ick. What will happen is the speck will fall off to the bottom and over 200 little ones will come from that one. It then goes through the process again and it keeps on repeating till something breaks the life cycle. I would reccomend QT and hypo.

 

[Innovator]

First off, when exactly are these spots showing up? In other words, do you notice them more during certain parts of the day or activity levels? Right off the bat it looks to be a natural skin development that does occur in all Arothron species and possibly stimulated on the "emotions" or stress-response at the time being. For example, I care for a black Arothron nigropunctatus (Black dogface) that extends white "goose bumps" if frightened/stressed and is almost entirely covered by them during its night/sleep phase. You mention the puffer is scratching against rock structures, etc. so I would quarantine this animal, hyposalinity treatment, and deworm. I don't believe this is ich, but the scratching is still a concern and especially before open wounds are created. Puffers should alwas be treated for worms upon arrival; hence why quarantine is so important.

 

[dfabrikant]

First off, when exactly are these spots showing up? In other words, do you notice them more during certain parts of the day or activity levels? Right off the bat it looks to be a natural skin development that does occur in all Arothron species and possibly stimulated on the "emotions" or stress-response at the time being. For example, I care for a black Arothron nigropunctatus (Black dogface) that extends white "goose bumps" if frightened/stressed and is almost entirely covered by them during its night/sleep phase. You mention the puffer is scratching against rock structures, etc. so I would quarantine this animal, hyposalinity treatment, and deworm. I don't believe this is ich, but the scratching is still a concern and especially before open wounds are created. Puffers should alwas be treated for worms upon arrival; hence why quarantine is so important.

Yes, first thing in the morning, he is completly covered in them! so im guessing during the night is when it occurs, then hours later hardly any. I know he has been stressed due to a Trigger fish biting him, but found a new home for the Trigger fish a couple days ago, but still bumps coming out. Yes he scratches on rocks, not as much as he used to. I do not have a QT tank, and it would take time to cycle one, so thats why I was treating the DT tank. This is the only thing in my tank now:
(1) Dogface Puffer
(1) Engineer Goby
(1) Lawn Mower Blenny
(1) Valentini Puffer
choc chip starfish, crabs, urchin

 

[Innovator]

It is quite common to see them in the morning and especially if indirect lighting is used. These puffers are relatively shy compared to others, but with a lot of personality. Ick/Ich Guard, thought Jungle Labs only created a fw version? I would stop treatment and rely upon garlic since most medications can cause havoc on your biological system in one form or another. Personally I think the scratching was a stress response from the triggerfish, but either way you are better off setting up a quarantine now so you won't pay for it later. Keep up the water quality and make sure you feed that poofer a rounded diet!! <-be wary of excessive beak/teeth growth. If you do decide to stop treatment, take notes as to how it reacts, whether positively or negatively