Impatient with startup high ammonia no sign of a cycle

[Titaniumtim]

Just curious sam, whats your PH at?

 

[sam180]

Sorry I left that out...it's roughly 7.6

Here are my readings from this morning:

 

[neonpedro]

Instead of washing it in dechlorinated tap water you should clean it in the tank water that you take out when you clean it.

 

[Britty]

Sorry I left that out...it's roughly 7.6

Here are my readings from this morning:

Its at least 7.6. When the low range pH reading goes to the max of the low range chart you should double check with the high range pH test, else you won't know if its higher than 7.6 nor by how much

 

[sam180]

I already checked it with the high range and it came back the same 7.6

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[Titaniumtim]

Instead of washing it in dechlorinated tap water you should clean it in the tank water that you take out when you clean it.

Thats a good point neon! Washing your filter or anything in clean water, even de-chlorinated, can wash away some of the BB (benificial bacteria).Like neon said, Lots of ppl use the water they take out of the tank during a water change to gently clean the filter of debris. You dont want the filter to look brand new, just not clogged.

sam, your ph is good, so it must not be that. You seem to be doing everything right that i can think of. Because its a bigger tank, I'm guessing it just took awhile for the ammonia to accumulate. When i did a fishless cycle it took two weeks till i saw nitrites, and that was dosing my ammonia to a steady 5ppm and sometimes higher in a 20 gallon tank. I think if you just hang in there you just might see results soon. Just keep doing what your doing. If the fish are doing good, i wouldn't change a thing!

neonpedro, how are you making out? Have you been making any progress? Seeing as your the OP,lol

 

[neonpedro]

I've stopped my water changes for the moment and as Soon as the ammonia climbs to 1ppm I'm going to treat it with ammonia remover and still not change the water. It's risky I think but I want to see if this will kick start nitrites. I'm also going to test pH again to be sure what it's actually sitting at. I think it's 6.4 or 6.8

 

[Titaniumtim]

"I assume that you kh (carbonate hardness) it sounds as though your ph is 6.4 despite water changes so your fresh water isn't probably adding a buffer as kh protects ph from falling.

Even if kh is relatively high, an overstocked tank will cause ph to fall as the nitrification process will use 7.14ppm of kh to convert 1ppm ammonia to nitrATE. Not to mention that acids are being produced at the same time. If kh goes down and acids go up then ph will fall. When it gets to 6.5 the bacteria slow down at 6.0 they start to die. I feel that this is why your tank is taking so long to cycle. The good news is that ammonia at a ph of 6.5 is mostly non toxic. However a large water change adds buffers (kh) ph rises and the large amounts of ammonia are halved but become toxic. The fish won't last long in this instance."



Very educational post Caliban07, i always enjoy your knowledgeable posts. Anyways, neonpedro, according to Caliban, if your pH is 6.5-6.8 right now, its going to drop to a point where the BB could stall as soon as soon as ammonia begins being broken down. There are a few easy ways to bump PH. One way is using crushed eggshells in a (clean, unwashed, preferably unused,lol) foot end of a nylon.Hang it over the side of your tank or put it in your power filter somewhere. Baking soda is another way. 1teaspoon per 5 gallons. Or just add a teaspoon a couple times a day and see how that goes. Dissolve in some dechlorinated water and add to tank-this is more of a quick fix till you can put something more permanent in like crushed coral or something else. Anyone else have any ideas how to bump up PH?

 

[neonpedro]

I read somewhere that a sudden rise in ph can be disastrous to fish who have become accustomed to the current pH however I'm at my wits end and I am willing to try anything to get this tank stabilised.

 

[neonpedro]

The sky blue is untreated tap water so it's at least 7.6 going in. The lighter one I think is more like pH6.4 is my tank water currently. So the tank is lower by some way. Does that follow what you would expect to happen?

 

[Titaniumtim]

Your exactly right. pH swings are bad. That's why u want to add tngs gradually. As for you difference in pH lvls from tap to tank, did u let the tap water sit for 24 hours as the pH can drop in that time. Also till your tank water is closer to the tap water pH, I would do small water changes(when your back to doing them regularly) as apposed to 50%ers as this will swing the pH and stress the fish. Smaller ones mean smaller swings in pH. Adding coral or shells shouldn't spike ur pH.baking soda could depending on how much u add. Its all trial and error and chemistry!!

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[Titaniumtim]

I hear you about being at your wits end. I had a very unsuccessful fish-in cycle experience. All of them died AND my tank sprouted leaks.You are at the point right now where most ppl get fed up and start dumping chemicals in and just want to start enjoying your fish. Try to stick it out a little longer. Focus on safely raising PH so your BB thrive, keeeping the ammo lvls in check and monitoring for nitrites. And take what i say with a grain of salt, most of what im spouting I've read on here

 

[neonpedro]

Tested water this morning before work and unbelievably the nitrites went purple for the first time!!! I had to get the wife to change the water before her work else I would have been late. She wasn't happy lol. I think there about 0.5 I will test again tonight but what do I do next?

 

[squirrilah fish]

Nitrites can kill!! Hard and fast. Especially sensitive fish like neons. Keep doing water changes when needed, test often. Your nitrifying bacteria are going to continue to grow, and eventually you will get nitrates, just stay with it until you get a 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5-20 nitrate reading. Then you just need to keep your Nitrates below 30-40

 

[neonpedro]

So although I've just started getting readings do you still suggest a daily 50% change to now control ammonia and nitrite levels or will to big a change interrupt the start of the cycle?

 

[cfosgate]

Continue daily water changes and dose with Prime to make ammonia and nitrites non-toxic in between.

 

[Titaniumtim]

Daily 25% changes unless something spikes. Then do 25% changes until u get lvls down and resume daily changes.

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[Titaniumtim]

Oh.. And Prime is your best friend!!!!

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[neonpedro]

I need to get some of that! Can someone upload a photo of the bottle please?

 

[Titaniumtim]

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html

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