John's 45g Planted Noob Build - Start to Finish

[Fishcraze]

I'm in trouble. Still researching but I see a real problem now with most LEDs through 21" of water. Take a look at this thread, particularly post #6 forward.

I suspected that at that depth, it wasn't going to be about the number of lights but rather the strength of the light and its ability to penetrate at those depths. The boss is gonna come unglued!

More to follow.

 

[Caliban07]

I don't have the PAR charts handy, but from what I recall, at 12" the fixture/PAR values are:
FugeRay / 44
Planted+ / 65
24/7 / est 65-75
Ray2 / 80

Not sure if FugeRay and Ray (1) are the same. I do know that after the release of the Ray2, the number of red LEDs were included in subsequent fixtures to help with plant growth and prevent the "washed out" appearance.
The Ray2 is a strong light.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Thanks. I think this light is more than adequate. Even at 20 inches.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Caliban07]

I'm in trouble. Still researching but I see a real problem now with most LEDs through 21" of water. Take a look at this thread, particularly post #6 forward.

I suspected that at that depth, it wasn't going to be about the number of lights but rather the strength of the light and its ability to penetrate at those depths. The boss is gonna come unglued!

More to follow.

This is the problem with the tinterweb and its infinite measure of differing opinions.

Here is pro aqua scaper George Farmer claiming to have roughly the same PAR as what your fixture should provide and 'dreading' to think what would happen with more.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/par-readings-what-are-good-readings.26134/

Here is Tom Barr commenting on ADA tanks all of which were between 30-50 PAR at substrate level growing carpets with no issues.

http://www.barrreport.com/forum/bar...-aqua-forest-and-nice-low-par-values-who-knew

Another from Tom Barr reiterating 30-40 is ok at sediment.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/light-compensation-point-and-optimal-par-levels.11971/page-2


Some people don't like Tom Barr for whatever reason. I like him because he tests and then provides information and I've seen his tanks. I've seen Amano's tanks and George Farmers. Barr has a PAR meter for one and that is the only thing that is going to give you PAR readings accurately.

Some are talkers (like me ?) and not doers. But my information comes from these people and from the studies they link.

Problem with talkers is that you don't know what their information is based on.

People in the thread you have linked that immediately have you questioning your light do not provide information about the tanks they are running to suggest that this light isn't good enough at that depth. They just say that it won't.

Tom Barr mentions in a thread that escapes me now that 40 PAR at substrate level is enough for beginners and veterans alike. I know who I would trust.

I'm guessing (because I don't have a PAR Meter) that my PAR at substrate level is less than yours. I could grow glosso but i eventually removed it because it was mixing in with my pogostemon helferi. Which is doing very well indeed. Good thing is, when injecting CO2, plants can get away with less light.

It's up to you but I think yours will be fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Fishcraze]

Wow - what is the equipment all doing?? Think I understood the first photo only

This equipment is maintaining a 250g reef tank one floor above. The wife agreed to the the reef tank only if I could make it completely silent so I located all of the equipment in the mechanical room of the basement. I don't remember all of it but I'll do my best:

Photo 1: Sump with a Aquacontroller which controlled the lights, moonlights, etc on main floor. It also controlled, when pumps turned on and off as well as power to the skimmer. Next to it there is a blue Tunze wave maker controller which controlled pumps and flow to ports in the base of the tank. The tank itself I had custom made in Canada and shipped to Washington. The green controller was for the calcium reactor. And the large device to the right of the sumo was a Deltec skimmer which was essential with a bio load of fish and coral.

Photo 2: it was the early iteration of photo 1 with a smaller in sump skimmer. Also shown is a large pump at the left of the sump pushing water up approx 16 feet to the floor above. I use to know the specs on all of this but at 51yo, I needed to make room for new memories lol.

Photo 3: construction of the canopy with a reverse view of metal halide fixtures.

Photo 4: This is a view from under the display tank and it's part of the Tunze wave maker. It consists of s cylinder with a roaring bore that shoots water out of 4 different ports which is what that white tubing is connected to. The intent is to create volatile (There is a better word, meaning unpredictable but I can't think of it atm) wave patterns much like a reef in the wild. Essential for corals.

Anyway, sometimes I get nostalgic when I look at the photos and I won't say that I wasn't proud of it all but when I think of those 50g water changes and having an RO/DI system constantly making water and running a dehumidifier 24/7 and then there are the accidents. One dead fish can become toxic rather quickly. It doesn't take long for me to get over the nostalgia. Oh and never being able to leave on vacation. How do you tell your friend how to take care of a system like this? Lol.

 

[Fishcraze]

Well first Caliban, thanks for putting all of that information together. A lot to digest for sure. Very interesting too because , like you, I have been finding info that totally contradicts everything Farmer, Barr and the like are posting. Granted, it's been 5 years or so but it still seems to me that the big push is towards PAR of over 100 for the red colors in plants and for carpet, etc. well, I'm torn to be honest. I'm going to try and not react to quickly but instead try and do a little more digging and see what I can find. LED fixtures with bulbs of over 3w ea start at about $400 and go up from there. Some much higher than that. Definite food for thought.

The irony is that I usually only have one hobby going at a time but right now I'm also focused on metal detecting so yes, the wife is lovin me right now lol.

 

[Caliban07]

Well first Caliban, thanks for putting all of that information together. A lot to digest for sure. Very interesting too because , like you, I have been finding info that totally contradicts everything Farmer, Barr and the like are posting. Granted, it's been 5 years or so but it still seems to me that the big push is towards PAR of over 100 for the red colors in plants and for carpet, etc. well, I'm torn to be honest. I'm going to try and not react to quickly but instead try and do a little more digging and see what I can find. LED fixtures with bulbs of over 3w ea start at about $400 and go up from there. Some much higher than that. Definite food for thought.



The irony is that I usually only have one hobby going at a time but right now I'm also focused on metal detecting so yes, the wife is lovin me right now lol.

That's ok. We see a lot of threads relating to algae here which is normally always due to too high lighting exacerbating inadequate carbon conditions. Nearly all the planted tank keepers of recent here have already or are thinking about switching back to lower light. Mainly because high light systems can be difficult to maintain and as mentioned earlier, losing the balance results in bad things faster.

I'm not trying to put you off higher lighting. There is nothing wrong with high lighting as long as you understand what the implications are.

I don't mean to sound like a know it all and I know there are probably a few that think I think I do but I don't. I'm just trying to offer my advice based on what I have learned from experience and from others. Whatever you choose to do, you can always come here for advice.

The way I see it is, more light = more co2, more nutrients, more water changes, more filtration, more flow, more pruning and more cleaning. In a deeper tank, most of those things become harder to achieve.

Keep us posted ??


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Fishcraze]

Just heard back from Finnex regarding PAR on this Ray2. Here is his reply:

Hello John,
Thanks for your interest in our lighting.
I've included the par values for the 36" DS. It shows at a 21'' depth, the par values will be right around 50. So it should be fine your your application.
Our Ray ll DS is a dual 7k light, it doesn't have moonlights.

He also included other misc info about Amazon shipping. Interesting huh? So immediately I'm wondering if his par value quote is in air or water. Then I think, what does it matter? According to the article I just read, par through water is higher than air. What? I'M GOING CRAZY! I know that can't be true. Oh, perhaps in the top 10" and centered but no one is going to convince me that based on glass reflection, there is higher par in water than air at the bottom of a 21" tank. Just not possible. Still, I'm nearly convinced that this Ray2 may suffice and funds would be better spent on Co2.

I can't wait till we start discussing flow lol.

 

[Caliban07]

Just heard back from Finnex regarding PAR on this Ray2. Here is his reply:

Hello John,
Thanks for your interest in our lighting.
I've included the par values for the 36" DS. It shows at a 21'' depth, the par values will be right around 50. So it should be fine your your application.
Our Ray ll DS is a dual 7k light, it doesn't have moonlights.

He also included one other misc info about Amazon shipping. Interesting huh? So immediately I'm wondering if his par value quote is in air or water. Then I think, what does it matter? According to the article I just read, par through water is higher than air. What? I'M GOING CRAZY! I know that can't be true. Oh, perhaps in the top 10" and centered but no one is going to convince me that based on glass reflection, there is higher par in water than air at the bottom of a 21" tank. Just not possible. Still, I'm nearly convinced that this Ray2 may suffice and funds would be better spent on Co2.

I can't wait till we start discussing flow lol.

Hahaha. That would be the exponential law of attenuation or attenuation/absorption coefficient. I'm not qualified to comment. Interesting read nonetheless.




Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Fishcraze]

Not sure if I already mentioned it but the Finnex light arrived from Amazon yesterday. I wasn't happy because they did nothing to protect the light at all. It came shipped in the original Finnex box. Perhaps they thought it didn't have bulbs or anything breakable. While it did work, I am still returning it. I am going to make them send me one that is packaged correctly with a box that is not beat to hell. I watched a Youtube video of the unboxing of this fixture and inside there was bubble protection and instructions. I had nothing in mine except for the end pieces for mounting above the tank. So yes, if I am going to spend $150 on a light, I expect them to ship it protected at least.

Tonight I also ordered another two bags of Eco-Complete. Hoping four bags will give me a 2" depth. I also ordered this background for the tank. Nothing special. I almost painted it myself but decided this would be easier.

Items at the top of the list to discuss are flow and nutrient dosing.

 

[Fishcraze]

The glass top should have a plastic strip that runs the length of it. You can cut it up to allow for filters and cords.

You are absolutely right. I saw that strip in the box and didn't realize what it was for. Then when I read your post, I measured the depth front to back and there ya go. Fits perfectly and now I can cut out for pipes etc when I'm ready. Thanks!

 

[Fishcraze]

Glass spray bars and lily pipes

Just starting to investigate the flow in my tank. Perhaps it may seem strange to some of you but looks are important to me. I don't like seeing a bunch of plastic in the tank. It pulls my attention away from the fish and plants. I am taking a look at using glass and wondering if anyone has had any experience with it. Here is a Youtube link to the glass lily pipes and here is a Youtube link to the glass spray bars.

My eyes are dead tired after spending most of the overnight hours investigating canister filters and flow. Rethinking my Cascade 1000 purchase and looking strongly at either Eheim or a large Fluval. Seems to me that I may need supplemental flow as well. Its perhaps a waste to buy an oversized filter just for flow. So I'm up for opinions now on brands of canister filters and thoughts on supplemental flow. I'm not crazy about having powerheads in my tank so maybe overkill on the canister is the answer lol. I'm assuming I will use a spraybar if this is my only source of flow and if I'm going to achieve 10x flow doing it. One of the considerations is that I was considering tall plants for the background. In fact, let me show you a tank I'm in love with.

I guess I should give credit where credit is due. Here is one of his videos.
Okay, all input is appreciated as always. Peace!

 

[Barliman]

Mike puts out some great videos. Between him, MA Fish Guy, Rachel, and Pecktec, I've learned a lot. I'm a little worried about the glass tubing, however, if only for the risk of breakage.

 

[Barliman]

Sorry I linked the wrong thing.

View attachment 287919

This is what I meant to attach I must have forgotten to copy and the phone remembered that link from another thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Where did you find this chart? I'd like to obtain one for the Planted+.

 

[Fishcraze]

I have found a guy locally who is selling the Fluval 406 online, new in box for $140. Buy two and he will drop the price to 125. He says he has 8 of them. What do guys think. I'm not crazy about buying stuff that doesn't have a warranty to back it up. Worth it?

 

[Fishcraze]

Where did you find this chart? I'd like to obtain one for the Planted+.

I emailed Finnex and that is what they provided.

 

[Barliman]

I emailed Finnex and that is what they provided.

Then I think I shall email them, too.

 

[Fishcraze]

The guy who was selling the Fluval 406 apparently sold out. Not surprising as that was a killer price. I will be ordering the 406 through Amazon and returning the Cascade 1000. I would sure like some opinions from anyone who uses the 406. I'm guessing that this will not be overkill for a 45g once I have the media in the filter. Speaking to f the media, did everyone just use the media that comes with the 406 or did the change it up. I watched a great video on canister filter media and I'm wondering if any of you use alternatives to the bio max.

 

[TMaier]

I just finish swapping out my bioballs and ceramic rings for Biohome 2 weeks ago. To soon to tell if it was worth the investment.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Caliban07]

The guy who was selling the Fluval 406 apparently sold out. Not surprising as that was a killer price. I will be ordering the 406 through Amazon and returning the Cascade 1000. I would sure like some opinions from anyone who uses the 406. I'm guessing that this will not be overkill for a 45g once I have the media in the filter. Speaking to f the media, did everyone just use the media that comes with the 406 or did the change it up. I watched a great video on canister filter media and I'm wondering if any of you use alternatives to the bio max.

For my 46 gallon bowfront I was deciding between the fluval 406, ehiem pro 3 and the JBL e1501.

I had a fluval 205 and like the filters, media capacity seems less than the others. The have a great 'Aqua stop' function which makes cleaning easy, they can be a pig to prime going off the 205 but the 406 may have markedly improved. The tubes are thicker though and did not fit in my tank cut outs and they still insist on using corrugated tubing which, although is nice and flexible, collects crud like I don't know what. I can't comment on the ehiem but I have had ehiems and I can say they are more expensive because they just seem like a better build quality and the pump in the 2217 I had was ultra silent. Unfortunately this canister didn't fit in my cabinet which was an inconvenience I didn't want to have to get round. The tubing is a horrible green but it comes with a spraybar which the fluvals do not. T

Then I found the e1501 by JBL and not only did fit perfectly in my cabinet, like the ehiems the standard size tubing allowed me to connect directly to my inline atomiser and it puts out a flow rate slap bang in the middle of the ehiem and fluval. Come with a euro plug though and the spraybar provided was too small so I used the fluval one which is longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Fishcraze]

I just finish swapping out my bioballs and ceramic rings for Biohome 2 weeks ago. To soon to tell if it was worth the investment.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Not sure where you ordered yours but I found this site and will probably order some. You buy it by the Kg so I'm not exactly sure how much I need. Anyone have experience with this? Going to fill a Fluval 406.