just added water.....how long should I wait to add plants?
- Thread starter GlitcH
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Just wait long enough to make sure that your equipment is working properly, and then you can add plants. If you have high light you will need to make sure that you introduce CO2 and ferts at the same time to avoid algae. The plants will help to minimize the cycle, making it safer and possibly even faster. This doesn't mean that you should add more fish than you normally would, just that it will be safer for the fish if you use them for the cycle. The plants will be fine with a fishless cycle as well. You are best off starting with fast growing stem plants, then one your tank is more established you can start adding some slower growing and/or delicate species.
Thank you very much for your reply purrbox.
Let me give you some background on the tank.
It's a 92G corner with varying depths of Eco (from 3"-5")
I've got 3.5 wpg of CF, pressurized CO2, and I just dosed some liquid flourish.
(check my sig for more info and pics)
This will be my first fishless cycle.
I've added 4 raw cocktail shrimp as my ammonia source.
Tank has been setup since friday.
Am I missing anything?
Am I on the right track?
Let me give you some background on the tank.
It's a 92G corner with varying depths of Eco (from 3"-5")
I've got 3.5 wpg of CF, pressurized CO2, and I just dosed some liquid flourish.
(check my sig for more info and pics)
This will be my first fishless cycle.
I've added 4 raw cocktail shrimp as my ammonia source.
Tank has been setup since friday.
Am I missing anything?
Am I on the right track?
As long as you've got your macro ferts ready to go (Nitrates, Phosphates, and Potassium) you are ready to go and could add plants at any time. If you don't have them already, you'll also want liquid test kits for NO3, PO4, KH, and pH.
BTW I've thoroughly enjoyed following this tank's progress in your other thread.
BTW I've thoroughly enjoyed following this tank's progress in your other thread.
rich311k
Aquarium Advice Addict
nitrogen = nitrates
Looks like you have everything. I am sure with your size tank you will be switching to dry ferts.
Looks like you have everything. I am sure with your size tank you will be switching to dry ferts.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
GlitcH,
www.gregwatson.com is where I'll be shopping today after work. The first purchase has a high shipping fee, but if you order successive items the shipping barely moves. I'll be getting KSO4, KNO3, iron chelate, and possibly the trace mix CSM+B.
With your size tank, you definately need to go this route. And yes your shrimp will provide the nitrogen your bacteria need to multiply and the plants. Ammonia (from the shrimp) is actually more easily used (and thus better) than nitrAte, but unfortunately ammonia is very poisonous to fish, so its not an option in planted tanks with animals. You very well might need to add extra nitrAte so that your plants don't starve from the lack of nitrogen (or you could cut up the shrimp so they rot faster but IMO this isn't a great thing to do).
Do you have seeded substrate to help the cycle? There will be some bacteria on the plants, but it will be significantly slower without some seeded media from an established filter or gravel.
Goodluck.
www.gregwatson.com is where I'll be shopping today after work. The first purchase has a high shipping fee, but if you order successive items the shipping barely moves. I'll be getting KSO4, KNO3, iron chelate, and possibly the trace mix CSM+B.
With your size tank, you definately need to go this route. And yes your shrimp will provide the nitrogen your bacteria need to multiply and the plants. Ammonia (from the shrimp) is actually more easily used (and thus better) than nitrAte, but unfortunately ammonia is very poisonous to fish, so its not an option in planted tanks with animals. You very well might need to add extra nitrAte so that your plants don't starve from the lack of nitrogen (or you could cut up the shrimp so they rot faster but IMO this isn't a great thing to do).
Do you have seeded substrate to help the cycle? There will be some bacteria on the plants, but it will be significantly slower without some seeded media from an established filter or gravel.
Goodluck.
Thx 7E,
Ya I gotta switch to dry for this tank.
I just went to gregwatson.com and I didn't know exactly what I needed so i bought one of everything lol.
I have been running one of my filters on my 29 for the past three months.
That.....and another like it that was not established are filtering the 92G now.
Do you think that will be enough or should I get some gravel from the 29G also?
What should I keep my nitrates at through the course of this cycle?
Ya I gotta switch to dry for this tank.
I just went to gregwatson.com and I didn't know exactly what I needed so i bought one of everything lol.
I have been running one of my filters on my 29 for the past three months.
That.....and another like it that was not established are filtering the 92G now.
Do you think that will be enough or should I get some gravel from the 29G also?
What should I keep my nitrates at through the course of this cycle?
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
Remember your not monitoring the nitrAtes, your monitoring the ammonia for the cycle, the nitrAtes are for the plants! You need to make sure your ammonia never goes to zero and preferably keep it at 2-5ppm for a while. It's going to be difficult to tell when your cycle is near complete since you have no reference point for how much ammonia is being added.
I'd say after a couple of weeks, measure your ammonia, and remove all of the shrimp temporarily. See how long it takes for the ammonia to reach zero. If it takes more than 24hours to get rid of 2ppm ammonia I would put the shrimp back in and wait some more. The problem is the plants will also be consuming the ammonia, so I would blackout the tank for 24 hours during this time (should almost negate the plants effect and they will not be harmed for such a short time without light).
Oh and turn your tank temp up to the mid 80's (aim for 85F), this will speed up the bacteria and shouldn't harm the plants, although I'll let someone more experienced (czcz, glenc, malkore, brianny, etc) comment on whether that temp is detrimental or not to the plants.
I'd say after a couple of weeks, measure your ammonia, and remove all of the shrimp temporarily. See how long it takes for the ammonia to reach zero. If it takes more than 24hours to get rid of 2ppm ammonia I would put the shrimp back in and wait some more. The problem is the plants will also be consuming the ammonia, so I would blackout the tank for 24 hours during this time (should almost negate the plants effect and they will not be harmed for such a short time without light).
Oh and turn your tank temp up to the mid 80's (aim for 85F), this will speed up the bacteria and shouldn't harm the plants, although I'll let someone more experienced (czcz, glenc, malkore, brianny, etc) comment on whether that temp is detrimental or not to the plants.
Sounds like a plan 7........I've turned the temp up for now.
Are you suggesting that I ditch the shrimp and go with ammonia dosing?
And what's the best thing to use for a blackout?
Does it have to be completely dark?
Are you suggesting that I ditch the shrimp and go with ammonia dosing?
And what's the best thing to use for a blackout?
Does it have to be completely dark?
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
If you have access to ammonia (be it in powder form such as ammonium sulfate or ammonium chloride, or in liquid form NOT WITH DETERGENTS!) I would definately go that way. You can easily tell exactly how much you added, you won't have any rotting shrimp smell, and you can redose as needed. With the shrimp, its a shot in the dark.
If you dose with ammonia you don't need to do a blackout. It doesn't matter if bacteria alone is getting rid of 2ppm of ammonia in 24 hours, or a combination of the plants and ammonia. As long as you can metabolize 2ppm ammonia in 24hours you are all set to put a good amount of fish in.
Please note the 2ppm is just my personal value I used in the tank. This is a very high amount of ammonia and even a full fishload probably wouldn't push this level (so you would be safe). The only real concern is during the time when the lights are out the plants are not absorbing much ammonia and you might have a slight spike.
So you probably want to use as your final assurance that the cycle is complete to dose 2ppm ammonia at night right as the lights go off and then measure the amount left in the morning. If you still have over 1ppm then I would recommend waiting longer, if its below 1ppm you should be good to go (do a large PWC prior to fish addition to get rid of the ammonia and possible nitrAte buildup).
If you dose with ammonia you don't need to do a blackout. It doesn't matter if bacteria alone is getting rid of 2ppm of ammonia in 24 hours, or a combination of the plants and ammonia. As long as you can metabolize 2ppm ammonia in 24hours you are all set to put a good amount of fish in.
Please note the 2ppm is just my personal value I used in the tank. This is a very high amount of ammonia and even a full fishload probably wouldn't push this level (so you would be safe). The only real concern is during the time when the lights are out the plants are not absorbing much ammonia and you might have a slight spike.
So you probably want to use as your final assurance that the cycle is complete to dose 2ppm ammonia at night right as the lights go off and then measure the amount left in the morning. If you still have over 1ppm then I would recommend waiting longer, if its below 1ppm you should be good to go (do a large PWC prior to fish addition to get rid of the ammonia and possible nitrAte buildup).
hey 7,
Great recommendation of www.gregwatson.com.
Like I said........I went and ordered like 75 bucks worth of stuff.
A couple hours later I get an email from Greg.
This is what he said:
I was dumbfounded.......this guy is the genuine article.
His next email:
Kinda long post but I wanted to let everyone know how helpful this guy was.
Thanks again 7, for pointing me in his direction.
Great recommendation of www.gregwatson.com.
Like I said........I went and ordered like 75 bucks worth of stuff.
A couple hours later I get an email from Greg.
This is what he said:
I was dumbfounded.......this guy is the genuine article.
His next email:
Ok … I am going to break one of my rules … I rarely make specific recommendations, I normally am the tireless nag who nags you to educate yourself about plant nutrition, educate yourself about the various dosing strategies, and then force you to make your own decisions <grin> … because when most people ask “what do I need” they usually want to be told what to do rather than gain the knowledge and understanding <grin> …
But <grin> … since you didn’t ask <grin> … and I suspect you are really 90% of the way there already … let’s talk …
Plants need to be fed a well balanced diet of Light, Carbon, Macro Nutrients, and Micro Nutrients …
You already have the turbo charged Ferrari style lighting … and you already have the pressurized CO2 … so you are already 90% of the way there …
All you need are macro nutrients (Potassium, Nitrate, and Phosphate) and Micro Nutrients (Like the Flourish you are using or a do-it-yourself alternative) …
So … for you macro nutrients you need one pound each of Potassium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Phosphate. Some old guard people like myself might also dose Potassium Sulfate, but your probably do not need it because you probably will be getting all of the Potassium that you need from the Potassium Nitrate and the Mono Potassium Phosphate … now that said, Potassium Sulfate is cheap, so personally, I continue to dose it (an excess amount of Potassium causes no harm), but I can also tell you that it is not needed in most cases …
Now … for Micro Nutrients … you are currently dosing Flourish … it is in my opinion, the best micro nutrient solution available. So either continue to use Flourish (which is the best) or you can consider a do-it-yourself alternative like many of us use made from Plantex CSM+B and Magnesium Sulfate. You can read about how to make your own micro nutrient solution here: http://www.GregWatson.com/HowToDosePlantex.htm ...
That should be all that you need …
So unless you have really soft water, you do not need anything else …
Chuck Gadd has a great online dosing calculator http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm that you can use to calculate how much of each of the macro nutrients you need to dose … somewhere on Chuck’s site he also has a downloadable windows version of his calculator as well …
Most of us start off doing water tests and then using a dosing calculator like Chuck’s to figure out how much we need to add each time. I personally dose Macro Nutrients on Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays. I dose Micro Nutrients on Tuesday, Thursday, and once on the weekends after I do any water changes or aquarium maintenance.
Eventually, most of us get to the point where we test our water less and less frequently and end up essentially following the Estimative Index dosing strategy whether we call it that or not <grin> …
It looks like you have a beautiful tank … I wish you the best of luck … if you ever get stuck or if you get an answer in one of the forums that you don’t understand, please feel free to drop me a note anytime with a link to that thread … I am usually pretty good at translating technospeak into the English that you and I speak <grin> …
Thanks,
Greg
======================================================================
Wow………not the email I would have expected
Hi Greg,
U got me pegged……I am new to the planted aquarium and wanted to have all that I need for the 92G I am cycling.
I frequent a forum and the users there told me that you were the man…….so I went to your site and made sure I had all the bases covered.
I am more than happy to go on your recommendations.
I am currently using flourish liquid ferts for my 29G …..but I’m still only a couple weeks into this.
I love it so much I decided to go all out.
If you would like more background on the 92G, you can check out my thread at aquariumadvice.com
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=75403
My username there is GlitcH
So……the balls in your court……..lemme know what I need.
Thanks again for your help.
Brian
Kinda long post but I wanted to let everyone know how helpful this guy was.
Thanks again 7, for pointing me in his direction.
TwoHobbies
Aquarium Advice Freak
Wow....I have only ordered from Greg once, but I can see from that e-mail I'll be ordering from him again. Thanks for sharing that response. Very kind of him.
What more could you ask for?
What more could you ask for?
Melissamustang
Aquarium Advice Addict
Wow that is a great email! If I do plan on setting up a 30 gallon.......He is who I would buy from!
mr funktastic
Aquarium Advice Addict
i am going to have to look into his products aswell. does he have a site to order from or do you just email him? could someone put a link to either of them?
mr funktastic
Aquarium Advice Addict
thanks rich!! the prices are great there and i think i want to order some. do all the dry goods come with mixing instructions? i know people dont like hearing this but "what do i need" lol i was thinking about ordering a pail of THIS. would that be all that i would need or would i also need some of THIS? i will make a post if i order it on dosing and all that. sorry for hijacking your thread glitch but thanks for opening my eyes to this site.
rich311k
Aquarium Advice Addict
I buy potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate, potassium sulfate and CSM + B. So I can dose each seperately. I use Chuck's calculator to figure out the amounts to use. Hope that helps a little.
Similar threads
