Just talking....

[NewFish]

Hey all, new fish here in the pond.

I just have some comments. Now bear in mind, I don't mean to offend, slight, or tick anyone off, but here goes:

I have been an on/off fish hobbyist for the last 10-15 years. Off and on, small tanks and big, aggressive and tropical. I have kept small 5 gallon tanks, and a 55 gallon tank. I have successfully kept Oscars for many years at a time, and have had great success with tropical fish too. Here's the thing, I have never "cycled" a tank, NEVER bought chemicals(other than ick guard, and medicine at times), and like I said, have never had any "real' problems. Did I have some fish die? Of course, did I have fish that I wanted to die and lived for years?? yup!

What I am getting at is this, how neccessary are all these steps to "setting up the best tank"? I have maybe tested water in any of my tanks only a handfull of times. My Oscars at one point were at LEAST 10 inches long, and almost as wide. I've had fish breed with no issues either. Have I just gotten lucky, or what? I have a 55 gallon Paludarium going on now, with VERY Minimal filtration. It is planted with live plants. I keep 2 dart frogs on the land portion, and some assorted tetras in some pretty tannis water. They are all thriving!!

I just set up a 20 gallon long today. I am trying to do the right thing by waiting a while before adding fish. I bought an AquaClear filter(with bio), and a whisper 100w heater. I plan on letting it run for a week or two, then adding some plants. YES, I have gravel in there, and NO, I don't plan on using a sand substrate. After I see how they do(maybe another week or so), I am going to add some fish. I did use some Tetra Aquahealth, or whatever it's called.

So what do you experts think???

Please be nice to the new guy, again, I don' t mean this to be mean-spirited AT ALL, just wondering out loud.

 

[blugrassboy]

man, i;m no expert, but i too have done fish for many years without proper filtration, etc...and thought everything was going okay. some of my tanks have been setup up for 5 + years with no "problems." i never tested the quality, just changed filters, etc...everything was okay, breeding, fish living, and so on....RECENTLY, i noticed on one fish i have had for many years her gill was "rotting" off....i panicked and went to the local zoo (my friend works in the herp aquarium) and with his knowledge (and proof of lack of mine!) we discovered the ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate levels to be through the roof...he theorized that over time, the "levels" build up because of improper filtration and/or no biological filtration. i thought i was doing good because "don't fix what ain't broke" but have learned a valuable (and emotionally costly) lesson.


since then, i have SLOWLY been lowering levels due to PROPER filtration and some work!! her gill has stopped "rotting" and has started to regenerate and Hopefully we will live happily ever after....now i test her water monthly and make appropriate measures...and have invested in "proper" filtration...i am again NO EXPERT but hope this helps!!!

p.s. the investment of a biological filter has helped more than any in my opinion....

 

[NewFish]

well, I have always used the AquaClear brand of filters with carbon, ammonia, and foam inserts. The new one I bought today has a new "biomed" satchel, which I am excited about. I honestly have never had any "rotting", or odd deaths. Some fish died here and there, but I never had anything like "hole-in-the-head" with my Oscars or anything. *shrug* I dunno.

 

[Zagz]

My situation is the opposite, if I don't cycle my tanks and do regular water changes, fish die. When I cycle the tanks, do water changes and add dechlorinator, everything is fine. I'm a firm believer in fishless cycling and keeping water parameters pristine.

Welcome to AA!

 

[QTOFFER]

Welcome to AA, Newfish!

You may think that you never cycled a tank, but actually, you did without even knowing it. You just didn't monitor the process closely.
15 years ago, the process that detoxified fish waste was unknown. Now, the microorganisms responsible are known, and the enzymes involved probably have been identified too.

Armed with knowledge that wasn't there 15 years ago, aquarists today can better prepare their new tanks for new additions. It doesn't mean that people were bad aquarists or "simply lucky" 15 years ago; but that aquarists today just have a better chance at success by using what the aquarium community has learned over the years. Taking the time to properly cycle a tank and monitor its progress is one of the things we have learned.

As far as chemicals, I've never used any myself except for dechlorinator. Long-time aquarists used to leave their water out to age - this works great for removing chlorine. With so many communities switching from chlorine to chloramine (often unannounced), the use of declorinator is recommended.

Your paludarium may be minimally filtered mechanically, but don't underestimate the plants' contribution. Live plants directly detoxify fish wastes, and provide alot of surface for beneficial bacteria to grow. Also, if a tank is lightly stocked, wastes will be so diluted between water changes that they'll never reach dangerous levels.

 

[blugrassboy]

Welcome to AA, Newfish!

You may think that you never cycled a tank, but actually, you did without even knowing it. You just didn't monitor the process closely.
15 years ago, the process that detoxified fish waste was unknown. Now, the microorganisms responsible are known, and the enzymes involved probably have been identified too.

Armed with knowledge that wasn't there 15 years ago, aquarists today can better prepare their new tanks for new additions. It doesn't mean that people were bad aquarists or "simply lucky" 15 years ago; but that aquarists today just have a better chance at success by using what the aquarium community has learned over the years. Taking the time to properly cycle a tank and monitor its progress is one of the things we have learned.

As far as chemicals, I've never used any myself except for dechlorinator. Long-time aquarists used to leave their water out to age - this works great for removing chlorine. With so many communities switching from chlorine to chloramine (often unannounced), the use of declorinator is recommended.

Your paludarium may be minimally filtered mechanically, but don't underestimate the plants' contribution. Live plants directly detoxify fish wastes, and provide alot of surface for beneficial bacteria to grow. Also, if a tank is lightly stocked, wastes will be so diluted between water changes that they'll never reach dangerous levels.

i have tuft (or beard) grass growing in my tank, is that helping the biological filtration? or just aggrevating me that i have to clean strainers every other day? thanks!

 

[malkore]

it sounds to me like you have good fish husbandry skill, and whether aware or not, you cycled your tanks with fish in a safe enough manner that you didn't over load the system with ammonia/nitrite.

fishless cycling is probably the big thing you're unfamiliar with. we didn't invent it...refined maybe, but there are some documented cases of victorian era fish keepers who would urinate in a new tank (providing a source of ammonia) to fishless cycle before they ever added fish.

fishless cycling is simply a fool proof, 100% humane way to cycle a tank. it takes patience, but this isn't really a fast-paced hobby

 

[DepotFish]

I don't cycle either or test my water but I also have a lot of experience in fishkeeping. I don't use chemicals either. I use dechlor occasionally in my betta tank but I prefer not to use it at all. I think learning the cycle is great for newcomers to the hobby, but it certainly isn't necessary. So long as you are smart enough to do water changes you'll be fine. I find more importance in proper stocking and fish/environment compatibility.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

My thoughts are to always do a fishless cycle. At least that's what I do now, as when I tried cycling with fish, I lost lots. Even in a larger tank with a few fish, there was always atleast 1 casualty. I also found that when people hear they don't need to cycle their tank before adding fish, like at most lfs's, they also neglect the fact of having to do a more routine water change, thus killing fish. Then they go back to the lfs and either get more or complain because they followed their recommendation and their fish died. So, all in all, a person can never go wrong doing a fishless cycle. I did it on both my 55G and my 75G planted, and 0 casualties. I believe the record stands for itself.

 

[TDWagner]

I have successfully kept Oscars for many years at a time, and have had great success with tropical fish too. Here's the thing, I have never "cycled" a tank

The tank will cycle itself. Nature WILL run it's course whether you know it's happening or not. It's just a matter of whether the poison levels get high enough to kill your fish.

NEVER bought chemicals(other than ick guard, and medicine at times)

Not even water conditioner? Maybe your tap water is low in chlorine. Chlorine will kill your fish in high enough concentration....simply tortures them if there's not enough to kill them. Of course if you're not doing partial water changes regularly, then you're not adding chlorinated water regularly.

and like I said, have never had any "real"' problems. Did I have some fish die? Of course, did I have fish that I wanted to die and lived for years?? yup!
What I am getting at is this, how neccessary are all these steps to "setting up the best tank"?

I'm not saying that you CAN'T cycle with fish in the tank, just the "best way" is to go fishless and avoid torturing fish with ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

some assorted tetras in some pretty tannis water. They are all thriving!!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think tannis water is harmful to fish at all.

I just set up a 20 gallon long today. I am trying to do the right thing by waiting a while before adding fish. I bought an AquaClear filter(with bio), and a whisper 100w heater. I plan on letting it run for a week or two, then adding some plants.

It's good that you want to "do the right thing" but the cycle can't start until a source of ammonia is in the tank...either from fish or a bottle.

No offense, but have you read articles about the Nitrogen Cycle? You have to understand the bacteria growth process and converting Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate in order to fishless cycle.

Please be nice to the new guy, again, I don' t mean this to be mean-spirited AT ALL, just wondering out loud.

No worries!! Most people here are extremely nice and very helpful.

Welcome by the way!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Tannins will not hurt fish at all. In fact, some places where fish like neons come from, the water is more like tea with tannins. Doesn't hurt fish at all.

Oh, and I forgot, Welcome to the forum. Yes, this particular topic is one where the thread could get out of hand. But I'm glad it's not. I'm glad you brought up the topic. Allows all to give their views. Hope to see you more in the other forums as well.

 

[NewFish]

Well, I have never done water changes in the past either. I haven't even vacuumed the gravel! I am a big beliver of a "natural" tank. When things die in my paludarium, I just let them rot(plants, that is). The Paludarium is SOOO green. I have all kinds of stuff growing in there, and I think it's beautiful.

I hope you don't all think I am mean, or careless about the welfare of any fish I choose. Maybe I just need to learn more about this "cycle" stuff. When should I test the water? How often? What should my levels be?? How long do I TRULLY have to wait?? I understand the whole bacteria bio stuff. Hell, I have so much of that in the Paludarium already. Also, is carbon really useless?? Would I fare better adding another "bio bag" or foam??

*sigh* all this learning is tiresome

We(my fiancee and I) Have a nicely running 10 gallon goldfish tank that is working beautifully. I know tropicals require more than goldfish, but that tank had inhabitants the first day, and we've had nothing but happy fish.

Tell me more please!

 

[TDWagner]

This is a link to another forum, but it is the most comprehensive article I've seen about cycling.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64301

I did a "fishless" cycle with no live plants, but since you have plants you might want to check out the "Plant Cycling" section.