Log for cycling my 55g tank.

[JimmyA]

Yeah, I am going to get a larger tank near Christmas and do something different. Maybe Discus or something. From what I researched, Discus beginners are supposed to start with a naked substrate. What do you think?

 

[zparticle]

Yeah, I am going to get a larger tank near Christmas and do something different. Maybe Discus or something. From what I researched, Discus beginners are supposed to start with a naked substrate. What do you think?

I honestly don't think having a bare glass tank is going to make any difference, but I could be wrong. It seems to me that having plants and other stuff in there would calm the fish not stress them. I've also read that the tank should have been up and cycled for several months before adding discus. I have trouble with that given that fish survive just fine at the LFS and are typically packed into tanks. I know they have killer filtration but if your tank is in good condition and you keep a close eye on the fish and the water I would think you would okay.

 

[JimmyA]

Makes sense. I'll just continue to do research for now and by December I'll be ready.

 

[jetajockey]

I suggest against getting discus for a freshly cycled tank. Let it get better established. Going by what you see at the pet store can be deceiving, they aren't going to tell you how many floaters they've had to net out since they've been stocking that particular species, but also being on a central system means their water parameters are way more stable than a single tank ever will be, overcrowded or not.

They are great fish but they are crazy sensitive and can be expensive heartbreakers.

 

[zparticle]

LOG: Day 48

Ammonia: didn't test
Nitrites: off the charts, still
Nitrates: didn't test
pH: didn't test

Added a little more ammonia. I've still got trites coming out my ears. Starting to think I may be in for another month of this.

 

[eco23]

You're past due on this thing. I'd start bumping up your pwc routine frequency. It's not normally necessary...but if it's taking this long to finish up, I vote for keeping the no2 knocked down. We also don't want to keep the ammo dosage low for much longer because the beneficial bacteria will start adjusting to the lower level. This one is definitely being stubborn, especially considering the fact you had some amount of seeded media. Don't forget to watch the pH.

 

[zparticle]

Fair enough, I'll do another big wc right now.

 

[zparticle]

LOG: Day 48 - Part II

Did a full water change. Removed the chunks of used filter I had sitting in the top of each canister, want them for the new 75g project.

Ammonia: 4ppm
Nitrites: 0-.25ppm
Nitrates: 0ppm
pH: 7.4

A little scary that the nitrate reading went all the way down to 0 after the water change.

 

[eco23]

Don't worry about the nitrAtes. The only way they leave a tank is by water changes or plants using them. There's a third way with denitrifying bacteria, but you'll really never see it happen in an aquarium. Even if something went horribly wrong with your cycle (which it didn't), I don't see any way they would disappear. it's just from the pwc .

 

[zparticle]

Out at the LFS checking out more fish options. Here are a number of pics I took of possibles and of saltwater fish I just thought were neat. The first pic is a piece of Malaysian DW that I picked up for the new 75g tank. I'm soaking it now.

 

[librarygirl]

Out at the LFS checking out more fish options. Here are a number of pics I took of possibles and of saltwater fish I just thought were neat. The first pic is a piece of Malaysian DW that I picked up for the new 75g tank. I'm soaking it now.

Wow awesome! Nice piece of DW! Saltwater fish are so exotic looking. The LFS I went to today had a few SW tanks with corals and everything, they were beautiful!

 

[zparticle]

Yeah this one has some reefs going as well but getting decent pics with my phone is hard. I was wandering around and back in a hidden corner I found all of this drift wood, rocks and slate. I might get some slate from there and try building another set of caves.

There is another SW only place near here that has tons of cool SW fish and other critters.

 

[zparticle]

LOG: Day 49 - Wow has it really been 49 days?!?!

Ammonia: .5-1ppm
Nitrites: off the charts, again
Nitrates: 40ppm
pH: 7.4-7.8


So this is about 13 hours after I did the full wc and put the ammonia back up to 4ppm. I'll likely retest around the 24 hour mark but I think by now we all know what to expect.

So here is my question, if I start dosing back to 4ppm everyday do I also need to start doing pwcs everyday?

 

[librarygirl]

LOG: Day 49 - Wow has it really been 49 days?!?!

Ammonia: .5-1ppm
Nitrites: off the charts, again
Nitrates: 40ppm
pH: 7.4-7.8


So this is about 13 hours after I did the full wc and put the ammonia back up to 4ppm. I'll likely retest around the 24 hour mark but I think by now we all know what to expect.

So here is my question, if I start dosing back to 4ppm everyday do I also need to start doing pwcs everyday?

Wow, what the heck?! lol This thing is overdue to cycle. I'll let Eco advise you on the pwc. I have no idea, this is weird (and something I'm expecting in my tank; I've waited 40 years for a purple tube; now I'll have to wait another 40 for a blue one ).

 

[eco23]

Yeah man, you're way past due. I'm on the verge of saying that something odd is happening...I just don't have any ideas as to what at this point.

Here's the deal with pwc's. They serve 3 purposes. #1- Restore nutrients the bacteria need to colonize. #2- Restore buffers to keep the pH stable and prevent crashes #3- Prevent no2 from hitting excessive levels which can potentially become toxic (levels are debatable) to the beneficial bacteria.

That said...numerous pwc's during a fishless cycle is a reasonably new concept. I'm not saying it was never advised before...but if you look at every fishless cycling guide out there...pwc's are not mentioned. In fact, not having to change water is advertised as one of the benefits of cycling this way. The main reason I put my write up together was actually to include a few pwc's in the process to prevent pH crashes like I experienced.

So here's the options as I see them. A) Keep dosing the thing up to 4ppm, ignore it for a while and wait for it to finish on it's own. B) Keep dosing it up every day and do pwc's every few days to knock down the no2. Which is better? That's debatable. Personally my first fishless cycle finished in 21 days with only a single 50% pwc halfway through. In ones I've done since (basically for fun and experimentation), I've never seen noticeable differences between doing a few here and there as opposed to doing them constantly.

Doing them constantly defeats the purpose IMO. If I'm going to change water every day...I might as well have fish in there to look at while I do it.

Whichever you choose...it's just going to be a matter of waiting it out...and if things aren't done in the next week, we're really gonna need to look into explanations of what is going wrong.

 

[jetajockey]

7 weeks of fishless cycling? Hope it works out for you soon and you can get that thing stocked and running.

@eco it may be a reasonably new concept to you or your process/writeup, but I don't think it is in general.

From the fishless cycling advocates I've spoken to and read about, the ones that really break it down often treat ammonia and nitrite levels the same, as in not letting them exceed 4ppm-5ppm or whatever.

In memory the only recent place I've read anything remotely related to this was on dr. tim's fishless cycling writeup found here http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/fishless/fishless.html

That said, I've known of plenty of people who have cycled without worrying about the nitrite levels, but who knows. I doubt it completely stops nitrification (raw shrimp method works great as well as pure ammonia methods) but it's been said to significantly slow it down.

 

[zparticle]

Well guys, I've clearly got conversion going on where I need it, just not enough for the no2 -> no3 stage.

I think I'll stick with it, heck I've come this far no point in getting all fired up at this stage of the game. So I'll keep dosing it and do a pwc every few days.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[eco23]

From the fishless cycling advocates I've spoken to and read about, the ones that really break it down often treat ammonia and nitrite levels the same, as in not letting them exceed 4ppm-5ppm or whatever.

In memory the only recent place I've read anything remotely related to this was on dr. tim's fishless cycling writeup found here http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/fishless/fishless.html

Yeah, that's the only one I remember seeing off hand that mentions anything even remotely similar. Believe me when I say I feel like I read every fishless cycling guide on the Internet before I ever got started myself. The common wisdom seems to simply be keep adding ammonia until cycled (to put it in a nutshell).

I'm referring to the belief that pwc's are needed every day or two to always keep the no2 down. When you hit the late stages, the no2 goes from 0 to off the charts in a flash. Like you said, there's countless successful cycles that didn't involve a single water change that happened in an expected time frame...but I definitely believe a few are key.

That said, if the trend of people advising pwc's every day or two continues...and people are eager and willing to do them...you'll see me actively promoting people to add fish from day one.

This is one of this tweaks which might shave a few days off...but it defeats the purpose of the "fishless" part IMO.

 

[cebo]

Man, I thought I was having troubles. You've got me beat! I'm at day 30 today and my readings are nowhere near yours. (NH3/4-0.25, pH -7.6, NO2-5+, NO3-20 Added 1 capful ammonia; as of yesterday). I have dosed my tank to 4 ppm max nearly everyday since NH3/4 read 0 and when I check the following day it's back to 0. My issue is with the NO3 high and NO2 higher. I'll continue to follow your thread as I plan to set up two smaller (30g) tanks with my wife. BTW, this is a great thread, us new-bees can learn a lot. So is eco23's fishless cycling thread.

 

[zparticle]

Glad to have you along for the ride.