marine tank looking at switching to fresh

[Harlequin]

Hello, found this board last night thought I would ask some questions. After having done marine reef tanks, I have decided to switch my 65 tank over to fresh for cost reasons. I have some set up questions as my father has had fresh tanks for years and alot of what he has done successfully conflicts greatly with what I have read here.
1. Substrate- Right now I have a deep aragonite sand bed in my 65. This is probably the best method for bio-filtration for saltwater. How will this work for fresh and if greatly rinsed out can it be used in my new tank?
2. Filtration- What works the best for this? Currently I have a wet/dry sitting in my closet, are these good for fresh or should I go with a powerfilter with a biowheel, or something else I dont know of?
3. Lighting- Currently I have two 55watt 50/50 PC lights above the tank along with a 175w metal halide. I would prefer not to use the halide since it adds 10 bucks to my monthly electric bill. How much light do freshwater plants need?
4. Since when does freshwater cycle? Been wondering about this since I have never seen my dad cycle his tank after cleaning and adding new water. He just puts in the fish and they do just fine.
This is all I can think of so far, but I am sure I will have more questions in the near future, the closer I come to switching over. Thanks

 

[Menagerie]

I have to run to a meeting, but
[center:35244797a3] WELCOME to AA, Harlequin!! [/center:35244797a3]

In the meantime, there is an article on cycling in the Articles section of this board.

 

[Menagerie]

I reread your post and hope others can help you better than I can. I am not great with filters or substrate—yet (I love the research behind fish compatibility). Here is what I can help you with:
Lighting--you may want to post in the plants forum.
Filtration--look at this link: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=20441
Substrate--I have sand in two tanks (Target Playsand from Home Depot), but it's there for looks, I haven't looked into its bio-filtration properties. I do know I need to aerate it, so I put snails in there after having done it myself for a while. My guess is you can reuse the sand.
Cycling--you need to get the beneficial bacteria to grow to break down waste from the fish. Many people are lucky--their fish survive the cycling process and don't have any idea what's going on in the tank (or the stress the fish are going through).

What type of tank are you thinking of (community, species, biotope)? There's so much you can do with 65 gal. What types of fish interest you?

 

[jsoong]

Comment on the filtration: if you have the wet dry, use it. Although people think of wet/dry for SW use, it can be use in FW - pretty common setup for goldie keepers - reputed to be better at keeping up with the big waste goldies make.

Lights - depends on what plants you want. 2x55 Watts would be OK for low light plants. Do check the plant forum.. Coursv. has a recent post on using 50/50 light for his plants (even tho this is not recommended for FW plants), also check Rex's sticky on plants (also at the plant forum).

 

[Endgame319]

Ok, I'll try to add what I know to what menagerie said. Forgive me if I restate what has already been said
Substrate - Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt that aragonite sand increase the pH of the water? Save for a few cichlids, most fw fish dont like high pH and hardness. Although a Malawi mbuna tank would thrive in that kind fo water. Otherwise I would get some small gravel (1-3mm).
Filtration - I dont know what a wet/dry is but if you were to get a new filter I would go with aquaclears - they are cheap, reliable, and efficient. I would go for 2 AC300s or a single AC500.
Lighting - The two PC lights would be fine for low-light plants, (java fern or moss, hornwort, and crypts) But if you want any more than that you would have to use the halide.
And read the artice on the fw cycle.

 

[stoneydee]

If you keep the sand, you'll have to rinse it to get rid of the salt, and if you rinse it, you've pretty much destroyed the good bacteria anyway. Don't use the sand if you want to keep fancy goldies, which would be killer (about six of them) in a 65.

 

[Allivymar]

Welcome to the dark side Harlequin *grin*

Ooo lessee. Where to begin.

I also think, unless you are looking to keep hard water fish such as most African cichlids or mollies, can the argonite. It will (as you prob already know) harden the water. I also don't suggest a deep sand base unless you are going to be well planted; those anaerobic bacteria can play havoc on a FW tank if they wind up in the water column.

SW and FW nitrifying bacteria aren't exactly the same; you'll need to cycle the tank again.

The HOBs with biowheels ARE wet/dry filters. If you have a wet/dry already, might as well use it instead of having to buy new.

Lighting depends on what plants you chose. Some can get by with 1-2 wpg, some need much more.

All aquariums cycle. All fish produce ammonia in their waste, and nitrifying bacteria colonise FW tanks as easily as they colonise SW tanks. You're dad's tanks WERE cycled in the end; he was obviously lucky/did lots of water changes to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down, even if he didn't know the tank was cycling.

 

[Harlequin]

Actually my dad does a water change about once every few years and adds tap water to take care of evaporation. Heheh I guess its just not as extreme a cycle as a SW tank.
OK- I established I need to dx the sand, this is weird, and replace with gravel. Without buying cheap looking dyed gravel, whats a good darker gravel to get?
Wetdry- gets hooked back up.
Lighting- sufficient for my needs for lower light stuff.

Now i need ideas on fish to put in there. having wandered through Petsmart and looked at a few sites online, I have come up with a few ideas, let me run them by you.
some catfish and/or plecos
rainbowfish
loaches
gouramis
an angel or two
Needlefish? how does one of these work in a community tank? Too aggressive?

 

[Menagerie]

Actually my dad does a water change about once every few years and adds tap water to take care of evaporation. Heheh I guess its just not as extreme a cycle as a SW tank.

8O
I'm guessing a great filter was attached to that tank. Most people on this board will tell you weekly water changes are the way to go. Personally, with all my tanks, they get water changed once a month.

Loaches like to be in groups of three or more. The loaches, plecos and catfish, depending on what you get, can get quite large over time. In addition, they are all bottom dwellers. Rainbowfish have been coming up a lot lately--many sizes to choose from. I just put 5 Celebes Rainbows (get to 2 1/2") in a BW tank. I really like the way they look. Other rainbows have little tiny faces compared to the rest of their bodies. One thing about most rainbows is although they have a large mouth, they have small throats. Much has been written about gouramis lately, too. I don't keep them, but read up on their temperament. Well, it's a good idea to read up on all the fish's temperaments. This thread is discussing good links for FW sites: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=11504

 

[Christmasfish]

Well I can answer for gouramis..smaller gourami are iffy in temperment..they can be eye catching little gems or little pitas you can't wait to dump. The colisa will shoal loosely but do not truly school. It is one or many with them if you want peace.
They are prone not only to squabbling (serious damage squabbling , not pecking order..though omega gourami always end up ground cat food) amongst themselves but targeting any other fish that get their attention that do not frighten them into shy violets hiding at the tank bottom.
The little ventral whiskers on nearly all species are functional taste/sense organs as well as decorative, are targets for most fin nipper like angels.
Rainbowfish are a species needing careful selection as they are often territorial.
Angels are cichlids...need i say more?
With so large a tank you may be able to mix and match two of those and not have major issues.Exception are always out there.
But as a fishkeeper you know how a fish acts in a crowded display is NOT how it acts naturally or in a tank setting at home.
Needlefish preadatory? or Territorial?

With so much space and a wet/dry on tap you can have an AWESOME biotope styled tank! I am in envy of the many possibilties

 

[Endgame319]

Now i need ideas on fish to put in there. having wandered through Petsmart and looked at a few sites online, I have come up with a few ideas, let me run them by you.
some catfish and/or plecos
rainbowfish
loaches
gouramis
an angel or two
Needlefish? how does one of these work in a community tank? Too aggressive?

You could probably do all of that in a tank your size, except the needlefish, they are very aggressive and need a species only tank, they also grow up to a foot, which may be a little too big.

 

[Allivymar]

I also don't think the needlefish would do well with the rest of the crew. And do be careful as to what pleco you get; some (like the common plec sold in most lfs at 1 1/2 - 3 inches) can get up to 2 feet long.

My 55g has 3 clown loaches, 3 yoyo loaches, 1 common plec (I got him before I got a clue; he's now 8 inches long and will be looking for a new home when he hits a foot long), a 5 soon to be 6 angelfish. I run an Emperor400 filter and water change about 20% once a week. I have some low light plants in there as well, but its not a "planted" tank persay. Its a great tank; active, colorful and lots of personality.

Heres a pic of my tank as you sit sideways on my couch (its right behind the couch): http://www.myaquaria.com/gallery/allivymar/couchview1_rs

 

[Harlequin]

Hmm ok, I am still not used to this many fish lol, maraine tanks have very few so if you go school there then thats about it for fish.
Alright next questions, do I need one of those airstone things putting tacky looking bubbles up the tank or will the wet/dry be enough for oxygen?
Sort of continuation of the last, can I use a powerhead or two for water circulation and is this recommended?
The tank as it is shaping up, will have a gravel bottom, some rocks up the back, alot of saltwater driftwood which is currently soaking. Looking at some low light plants such as Java Fern. The only must have that I found and fell in love with are this small Yellow spiny eel or something like that with an elephant nose( was told they only grow 6-7" and am considering an African Butterfly(the ones that hover under the surface, still debating it though).
Any other recomendations on colorful fish that stay relatively small? Preferebly blue or another bright color besides orange and yellow?

 

[Menagerie]

do I need one of those airstone things putting tacky looking bubbles

No

can I use a powerhead or two for water circulation and is this recommended?

If you want to; however, my filter generates enough surface ripples for my tanks--including the 80 gal.

Any other recomendations on colorful fish that stay relatively small? Preferebly blue or another bright color besides orange and yellow?

Those are hard to come by. What do you consider "relatively small"?? JMHO, bright colored fish tend to get aggressive and need to be keep together (my head is stuck on Rift Lake cichlids this morning). What is the look of the whole tank--community?? That will take some researching to find a peaceful, colorful fish--good luck!

 

[Harlequin]

ohh ohh I know, can I have a Betta? Or will it be too aggressive?

 

[Endgame319]

It really depends on what other fish you get. Bettas are not generally aggressive unless it's with another betta or a fish with big fins that might look like a betta, (Guppys, long-finned tetras). I wouldn't do a betta as it would severly limit your other fish choices.

Is this the elephant nose your talking about?
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/elephnos.htm
If it is, it should be fine on your tank if you have some good hiding places for it.

The only small, colorful, peacful fish I can thing of are guppys or platys. If you're willing to drop the peacful thing you could go with malawi mbuna. Very colorful but very aggressive.

 

[Menagerie]

malawi mbuna. Very colorful but very aggressive

And that would be all you have in that tank (okay, a pleco and Synodontis as bottom feeders)
Although, the peacocks from Lake Malawia have a different pecking order and are not as aggressive. Then you would have a tank of peacock cichlids.
-OR-
You could do a Lake Tang tank.
Here is a link to a great fish species site--lots of cichlids on there: http://www.mongabay.com/fish/species_index

 

[Christmasfish]

What about killifish? they are small and in avariety of color and mix with a pretty nice portion of similar needs fish.... no?

A super tetra tank..just stuff it with every comaptible tetra you can..neon, black neons, cardinals, rummies, maybe some skirts or phantoms in smaller numbers.

And tetra type fish are what fit perfectly into the inch of fish per gallon rule...
some cories and warm waters otos to do housecleaning...

I am getting a pic of my lfs's tetra tank..he only has like 30 left now but it'll give you the idea.
And hopefully he still has some of those new wild caught "blue" tetras.
Or blue emporers ...with the neons to of course!

 

[Fishywah]

I have a Needlefish in with my severums, pleco and a black knife fish. He swims most of the time at the top of the tank and doesn't bother anyone. He is of course not as big as he's going to get yet either, but they're all around the same size and grow at the same rate so I don't have to worry. But I would NOT recommend putting a needle fish in with anything small...as they will become lunch! (Needlefish can grow to be 12in long or longer) Hope that helps!