Mouth Swelling & Quick Death

[wrmiller]

Earlier this week my 3 clown barbs died suddenly after their moths became deformed, swollen and red. I don't have any really good pictures but I'll post the ones I did take.

Basically, I got up Tuesday morning and all was fine. After work I noticed one of the clown barbs was ver inactive and his moth was sick looking and he couldn't close his mouth. He died that night. Over the next day it spread to the other two clown barbs and those died too.

My false SAEs, corys, Golden CAE and Balas seem to be okay although one bala is not as active as he usually is. Is there such a disease or condition that attacks only certain fish like that?

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

 

[LyndaB]

What are your water parameters?

How long has tank been set up and how large is it?

What is your stock in the tank?

What is your typical maintenance schedule on the tank? Any additives?

 

[wrmiller]

Stock listed above minus the barbs that died. Ammo 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20-40 (can't be helped due to migrate in tap water) & pH 7.8.

Tank is about 2 months old and fully cycled. Filter is older as was on pre opus tank.

Only thing I can think is that a fish I got at PetSmart I stupidly put in without QT because QT wasnt cycled caries something and spread to the barbs.

I want to know if anyone knows what the issue was and what I have to do before putting introducing anything else in to the tank. How can I be sure whatever it was/is had gone?

Thanks!

 

[LyndaB]

How many of each species? What size tank? Additives?

You can definitely get those nitrates down by doing water changes.

I'm sorry for all the questions but it really helps us figure out what might be going on. It's all relevant.

 

[wrmiller]

How many of each species? What size tank? Additives?

You can definitely get those nitrates down by doing water changes.

I'm sorry for all the questions but it really helps us figure out what might be going on. It's all relevant.

No, I can't get the nitrates down with just a water change. I have 20-40ppm of nitrate in my tap water. I did 70% water change last night.

No additives.

60 gallon

5 Cory's
2 Bala (2.5 inches) (Don't freek out I know they will get large and I will need larger tank)
3 false SAE
1 golden CAE

Deceased: 1 rubber lip pleco & 3 clown barbs

 

[LyndaB]

May I ask what you have for substrate?

My understanding is that clown loaches have really sensitive mouths.

Any salt in the water?

 

[Talvari]

Clown loaches do have sensitive mouths... But Clown Barbs are a little more hearty, I do believe.

It kinda looks like a mouth fungus, though. Occasionally we get mollys in at work that look like that. Unfortunately, they usually dont recover.

I found this post on a website that was all about mouth rot/fungus, and it kind of sounds like that is what it was...

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?21286-treating-mouthrot-mouth-fungus

 

[LyndaB]

Oh my goodness, I saw the picture, thought to myself "certainly the OP meant "loach", and researched accordingly. Sorry about that.

I do know that the barbs would usually be more comfortable in a lower pH. Do you know the pH of the lfs? Did you purchase locally or have shipped?

 

[wrmiller]

Oh my goodness, I saw the picture, thought to myself "certainly the OP meant "loach", and researched accordingly. Sorry about that.

I do know that the barbs would usually be more comfortable in a lower pH. Do you know the pH of the lfs? Did you purchase locally or have shipped?

I have had the clown barbs for 6+ months and they were thriving in the pH since then without problem. They were very good fish and healthy. I think when I brought the Rubber Lip from PetSmart and introduced him he had a disease he spread to the barbs. I am 99.9999% sure it isn't water conditions that caused the issue but the disease introduced with that new fish. I'm most concerned wanting to know if I should do some sort of treatment to the entire tank. All symptoms happened in a singe day and then death. Don't think that would be anything parameter related when other fish still seem to be fine.

 

[wrmiller]

Clown loaches do have sensitive mouths... But Clown Barbs are a little more hearty, I do believe.

It kinda looks like a mouth fungus, though. Occasionally we get mollys in at work that look like that. Unfortunately, they usually dont recover.

I found this post on a website that was all about mouth rot/fungus, and it kind of sounds like that is what it was...

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?21286-treating-mouthrot-mouth-fungus

What do you treat this with where you work and how do you keep it from spreading?

 

[wrmiller]

And just to add. I do think I have seen this same thing in a local PetSmart a month or so ago and was on their tiger barbs. I will never buy another fish from there but that's just my opinion now based on this experience.

 

[Talvari]

Fish are going to get sick, and we try really hard at my store to quarentine ASAP. We take any sick fish to our quarentine tank in the back... According to that article I just posted for you to read...

"The bacteria grows poorly at temps. below 76 degrees F. but very quickly above 77degrees F. so it is one of the diseases that you actually want to lower the temp. for, 74-75 F. is ideal during treatment. Aquarium salt at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons will prevent most outbreaks but not all.
Once an outbreak does occur it is important to move quickly as small fish can succomb within 24 hrs and large ones within days.
The bacteria responds well to any antibiotics but the Aeromonas also often present responds best to minocycline while the Flexibacter is less responsive to that than to other drugs.
Kanacyn (kanamycin) will treat both. A simultanious use of both Maracyn (erythromycin) and Maracyn 2 (minocycline) is reported as treatment of choice but several other meds such as Tri-Sulfa, and Myxazin or interpet's Anti-fungus and Finrot are also reported as reliable treatments."

 

[wrmiller]

Fish are going to get sick, and we try really hard at my store to quarentine ASAP. We take any sick fish to our quarentine tank in the back... According to that article I just posted for you to read...

"The bacteria grows poorly at temps. below 76 degrees F. but very quickly above 77degrees F. so it is one of the diseases that you actually want to lower the temp. for, 74-75 F. is ideal during treatment. Aquarium salt at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons will prevent most outbreaks but not all.
Once an outbreak does occur it is important to move quickly as small fish can succomb within 24 hrs and large ones within days.
The bacteria responds well to any antibiotics but the Aeromonas also often present responds best to minocycline while the Flexibacter is less responsive to that than to other drugs.
Kanacyn (kanamycin) will treat both. A simultanious use of both Maracyn (erythromycin) and Maracyn 2 (minocycline) is reported as treatment of choice but several other meds such as Tri-Sulfa, and Myxazin or interpet's Anti-fungus and Finrot are also reported as reliable treatments."

I know. With so many fish how do you possibly controls everything? It's my fault for not QTing. Trust me. Just bitter right now. I'll be back to PS within the week no doubt.

 

[skiweeangel]

I know. With so many fish how do you possibly controls everything? It's my fault for not QTing. Trust me. Just bitter right now. I'll be back to PS within the week no doubt.

I know the feeling personally. I'm sorry.

 

[Talvari]

Haha, so do I.... I work there and get frustrated as heck sometimes.

 

[wrmiller]

I'm happy to say that I have had no more breakouts and no more deaths. I'm guessing whatever it was is gone.

Quarantine Tank is going through fishless cycle and I hope it is almost complete. Ammonia drops to 0 every 24 or less. Now waiting for the nitrites to cycle. They are almost there and are slowly going down. I did back to back water changes yesterday to get the nitrate under control.