Mystery Minnows ????

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Stickleback

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
93
Location
N. Ireland
Just bought these from my LFS...on his recommendation.

I was looking for White Cloud Mountain Minnows, and he said these were related, possibly from Vietnam, but he also mentioned Thailand, and they require the same tank conditions as the White Clouds, so I went for them.

NOW...I am having difficulty positively identifying them from pictures etc on the internet.

Can YOU help? :)

Sorry about the poor quality video, and the background noise, but I want to find this out ASAP to give them the conditions they need.
 
Yep those are definitely glowlights, I have some in my 10g. They're pretty awesome but I'm don't think they're very related to minnows, being tetras lol.
 
Well I have just come off the phone from the LFS guy, asking for the latin name of the "minnows" he sold me last night, and he looked up his order book, and said that the common name they were normally sold under was White Cloud Tetras, or Vietnamese Minnows. He then gave me the latin name "Tanichthys albonubes" which is WCMM.

He reckoned they were a less common relative of WCMM, from Vietnam, and required the same tank conditions as WCMMs ie: cooler water etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think these are beautiful little fish, but as I said to the LFS guy I wanted WCMM, and when he made out that these were a subspecies, I thought it was an interesting twist to our quest for WCMMs.

I don't want to appear to be doubting you guys, and thanks very much for commenting...but is it possible at all that these are some kind of rare Vietnamese Minnow?
 
Yep, they are definitely the Glowlights. Not related to minnows, and AFAIK not sure how accurate the statement is about them needing the same tank conditions (other than, "freshwater" versus "saltwater" lol).

White Clouds prefer cooler, unheated tanks--mid or upper 60's, maybe low 70's at the upper end. The tetras prefer true tropical temperatures, which means 74 or 75 as a minimum and ideally a little warmer than that. Tetras in general prefer softer water, lower pH conditions as well...not sure how that compares with White Clouds.

Chalk this one up as another "clueless pet store employee" incident.
 
Oh come on !!

He was so convincing!

This is the owner of the shop, not a part-timer/school-leaver!

I went round a good few pet shops/aquarium shops, looking for good specimens of WCMMs, even driving 40 odd miles to one shop, and I thought these ones looked slightly better...smaller, and perkier or something... I thought they were possibly younger specimens, and therefore a better choice.

Now I know why they looked different !
 
Yeah. Just like Petsmart is SO convincing when the manager tells me the 1 inch of fish per gallon thing and I reply with "so by your logic that makes it ok to put an 18 inch oscar in an 18 inch tank?" They tend to shut up and walk off.

*Sighs* One of these days I'm gonna be black listed from Petsmart.
 
I am so disappointed.... I really thought this guy knew what he was talking about.

I don't know what I am going to do now...
 
Take 'em back and demand your money back!
Take him some pictures of glowlights just to enforce your point.
If he's worth anything he'll at least give you a store credit, whether he agrees with you or not.
 
white cloud minnows are some of my favorite fish, those are not white clouds =P

ask for an exchange maybe? my LFS does store credit or even exchanges
 
Glow-lights are tetras without an adipose fin (most tetras have a little nubby fin on them that says, "I'm a tetra!") so I somewhat understand being unsure of what it is... but it really does appear that this guy BSed you for the sale. I would attempt to return them and let the manager know, your opinion of the LFS hinges on how he handles this.
 
white cloud minnows are some of my favorite fish, those are not white clouds =P

ask for an exchange maybe? my LFS does store credit or even exchanges

Well considering it was a store employee that mis-identified the fish, even if the store had a "no return" policy then I think they would have to make an exception in this case. Or else you could threaten to report the store to the Better Business Bureau, since after all, for a store to claim an item is one thing when in fact it is something else (especially if it is done for the purpose of "making a sale") is most certainly a "shady," if not downright illegal, action.

If you paid for the fish with a credit card, you could also file a complaint with the credit card company...basically tell them, "I paid $10 (or whatever) to buy White Cloud Mountain Minnows, and when I got home I realized what I had been sold was something else."

Either way, I can't imagine any store being willing to take a negative BBB hit or get in a fight with a credit card company over $10 or $20 worth of freshwater fish. Simply not worth it to them.

~~~~~~~~

And to the OP, I would definitely suggest (if possible) that when you take them back to the store, bring with you pictures (from the internet, in color) of both a Glowlight Tetra and a White Cloud Mountain Minnow. I just looked at your video again and, I mean, come on, those are so clearly NOT WCMM's it's not even funny. Their body shape isn't right, the coloring isn't right--basically nothing about them is right. They aren't even close. Someone who has been blind from birth could look at those and immediately identify them as a tetra...
 
Well...it looks like I have a shoal of Glowlight Tetras in my nicely cycled tank.

Question now is what do I do, or rather...what do I want to do?

They were in the LFS (which is not a normal budgies & goldfish type pet shop, but an aquarium shop, specializing in Marine & Tropical fish, and inverts) and they were in there for at least 3 weeks approx, since I first seen them.
They were in a coldwater tank, which is filtered together with the other cold tanks with Comets & Orandas etc.
Now they are in my coldwater tank.

If I decide I want to keep them, how on earth am I supposed to acclimate them to their correct temperature safely?

I don't even have a heater...ok, I know if I decide to keep them, I will need one.

Is it possible that they have been keep in the cold for long, and have successfully acclimated? Info I have found suggests that they are tolerant of a wide range of conditions...quote "Will tolerate a wide range of water parameters including pH, temperature and hardness."

why are things seldom simple?
 
They are nice fish, very nice, so there is nothing wrong with wanting to keep them. If you decide to keep them, then if they are going to be the main fish in your tank, you probably would want to provide them the most ideal conditions possible. Being "tolerant" of wide varieties of conditions does not mean "thrive" in wide varieties of conditions. Since I suspect these fish were wild-caught (or else produced in a commercial fish farm), either way they probabably have spent most of their lives in their "normal" temperature range of 75°+, and the three weeks they have been in that pet store in coldwater tanks are the exception, not the rule.

This page has some very good info, and recommends 75-82° normally and the upper range of that (79° and up) for breeding. This page says 74-82°. Here's one breeder's account of his successfully breeding them, notice his temps were in the 78-80° range. I could go on and on. I found one or two pages that hint temps as low as 72° might be possible but in general, most recommend 75° and up.

They are basically all agreed that you ideally want soft rather than hard water, and ideally in the acidic pH range (so pH less than 7). Adults can apparently survive harder water and pH's up to about 7.5 but it sounds like there is no chance of breeding without softer, acidic water. They prefer tanks where the lighting is more subdued, with a fairly substantial amount of plant cover from both planted and floating plants. Subdued lighting and plenty of plants help to bring out their colors, and also lead to more natural behaviors.

As to how to raise temperatures, easy. You put a thermometer in the tank, set for a little bit *below* what your current temperature is. Then each day, raise the temp by about 1° per day until you have the temp where you want it. You could probably even go 2° per day, but 1° per day is being extra cautious. If you're looking for a heater, I'm partial to the Stealth heaters as they are shatterproof and very accurate, and many aquarium shops will carry them in stock. They cost a bit more than those cheapo glass heaters but I've heard enough horror stories about glass heaters shattering that I think it is well worth the money to get a shatterproof one. (There are other brands of shatterproof heaters too, but I've personally used 4 Stealths in my lifetime and have had very positive experiences with them.)
 
Thanks JohnPaul, great advice here... I just have to decide what to do now.

I have set up a mountain stream style tank, with gravel and stones, as you might be able to see in the video, so probably I would have to change the whole feel of the tank to suit the tetras...

Although all the planning so far has been for the WCMMs, I am not sure if I want to return the little'uns back to the conditions at the shop.

I will check out those heaters...see if I can source them over here, or on fleabay. :)
 
Bumping this to the top again guys, hope you don't mind :)

Just spoke to the shop owner there, and he reckons his supplier is one of the best there is, and is really surprised that there is any confusion, and doubts that his supplier has made a mistake....he has been ordering this fish regularly from the same guy for years, and this is the first time there has been any querys.

They have been in his coldwater tank for two months now, and I must admit they look very well.

Are you absolutely positive about these being Glowlights?
 
These are what comes up on google images search for "White cloud mountain minnow"
china_103-7011.JPG

white_cloud_mountain_minnow.jpg
ages.jpg
white+cloud.jpg




These fish are what comes up with googles image search for "Glowlight tetra"
normal_glowlight-tetra-shoal.jpg
Glow-Light%20Tetra%20web.JPG
Glowlight%20Tetra.jpg



Now looking at these two groups of pictures a few differences seem to show itself.

The most prominent difference in my opinion is the colouring above the eyes. The tetras have a definate colouring above the eye. In all the pictures of WCMM there was no red on the top of the eye.

Now in your video it seems obvious they have colouring on the top of the eye.

Thats me, google, and my two bits. Hope it helps.

Edit: Just want to add, some species can be almost impossible to tell apart short of a labratory test. It's possible the collector is telling the truth and this version developed colouring similar to Glow-light tetras. For one your fish seem to have a very defined black line running along their side, very similar to WCMM. Whatever they are, nice looking fish.
 
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