Need Help Fish look like they're dying

[Ravn]

I have a 200 gallon outdoor pond consisting of 3 levels. The top level is approx. 10-15 gallons and has three bog plants and one floater in it. This levels pours down into a second level that is 50 gallons and has two well-grown lillies in it and two floaters. From the middle level the water pours over into a small streamlet about 1 gallon in size and then pours over into the last largest section which is approx. 150 gallons. The lower section has three bog plants, an under-developed mares tail (thanks to a recent tadpole infestation), some rocks stacked to form caves and about 20 goldfish ranging in sizes from 1 1/2 inches up to 7 inches long. The lower section has a 475 gph pump housed inside a bio-filter box with the little gray bio-balls and four layers of sponge-like filters. I have a fountain attached to the pump that sprays water out so that it falls in droplets back inot the pond. In the last day and a half five of my fish have been very lethargic, not eating very much if any at all and have seperated themselves to one side of the pond. One of these fish was being chased by a larger goldfish a couple of days ago but is now somewhat bloated and is staying at the surface like it's not getting enough oxygen. Three more of the five just started acting like that with no noticed precursors and the fifth, has been prone to laying on his side near the top of the water all the time looking as though he were dead but when you touched him, he would swim away quite quickly.
The five fish that are acting strange were ones I had in the pond for several weeks and this past Wednesday is when I added all the other fish. The lady that sells me fish was a little excited and gave me a bunch of fantails for free. Please help me, I really dont want to lose any fish. I know I have an ich problem and am going to dose the pond for that but do I have an aeration problem as well. Also the nitrites are high and I have already used a dose of bio-booster to try to lower them. Is there anything else I can do about the nitrites? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[dskidmore]

Could be dropsey. Are thier scales sticking out a little bit? It could also be constipation, or ammonia poisoning. The fact that this happened right after adding new fish, suggest to me that one of the new fish brought a nasty hitchhiker in with him. There is also the possibility that the volume of new fish is too much, and you're going through another ammonia cycle.

Ammonia Poisoning
Did you mean Nitrites or nitrates were high? Could you post exact numbers? Can you do a large water change of the pond water? Could you post the results of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits? High Nitrites would indicate that you added too many fish at once, and the bacterial population needs to build up to keep up with the increased load. Large water changes could help, additional floating plants could also help.

Constipation
Constipation can cause bloating, lethargy, and trouble swimming. Try blanching some frozen peas, peel off the hull, and feed to the fish. If the fish won't eat, and he's large enough to do so, put a grain of epsom salts inside the pea and force feed it.

Dropsey
Dropsey has symptoms similar to constipation, and can be caused by bacterial infection or parasites. I would try an anti-parasitic food as the first resort. The jungle brand is well recomended. You could also QT the affected fish and treat them with an antibiotic. Note that an antibiotic will raise your ammonia and nitrite levels, so don't go with the antibiotic if ammonia turns out to be your problem.

Your pond sounds like a nice setup. I'd like to have something like that when I have more property some day.

 

[Ravn]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Firstly, I have to admit that my test kit is one for aquariums as I have yet to find one for ponds in my immediate area. I don't know if it makes a difference or not. If it does, please let me know. The numbers for the measurements are: Nitrate between 15-20 ppm, Nitrite between .5 and 1.0 ppm, Hardness measures as soft, Total Alkalinity measures as 80 ppm, and the pH was 7.2. The Ammonia was .25 ppm.

Now, as an update because I was in a dead panic and changed some things hoping it would help ... I rushed down to the local Wal Mart and bought the only air pumps they had, two of them for aquariums between 20-60 gallons and two bubble bars and two bubble stones. After installing these, the fish immediately perked up and seemed to love the new oxygen. I also located and removed the strange fish that was prone to swimming on his side and put him in a hospital tank where I could see that he was covered in white stuff which looked like ich. I treated the whole pond for ich along with the fish in the hospital tank. So far, I have treated the pond for three days and the fish are no longer acting strange at all. The one I removed to the hospital tank passed away last night despite all my efforts.
As far as the high nitrite level, it is still a little high but I was able to lower it significantly by adding some more Bio-Booster to the pond and doing an approximate 10% water change.
My only remaining questions are as follows:
1. How long do I need to treat the pond for ich?
2. Are there any pond plants that can help naturally lower the nitrite level?
3. Lastly, any suggestions on aerating a pond that doesn't cost an absolute fortune? I need to replace the temporary set-up on my current pond described above, boost the oxygen in the one on my back patio so I can put fish in it and find a system for the in-ground one I am preparing to install in the front yard so that I can have one deep enough to winter both my fish and plants in (10 ft L x 10 ft W x 2 ft D).
I also have some confusion about my fish and about how deep my new pond needs to be in order for the fish to survive the winter. I am located in Eastern Kentucky and the winters here usually do not dip below around 15 or 20 degrees F but I am also on a pretty big hill so that may affect the temperatures a little. Do I need 2 feet or 3 feet of depth? So far all my ponds are above ground and are sitting on concrete. About the fish, I thought they were all goldfish but some of them look like they might be Koi, how do I tell?

I know, I'm a blundering idiot and I humbly ask that you all be a little tolerant of my endless questions. I just started my ponds this spring and now I'm hooked for life!

 

[dskidmore]

Sounds like you're going through an ammonia cycle. The fish will be stressed during this period, extra water changes will reduce the loss of life.

There is no diffrence between the aquarium and pond test kits unless you're heavily salting your pond. The amount of salt can affect the results of some kits.

1. Which ich treatment are you using? It is important to keep up ich treatment until a full life cycle of ich has passed, as the ich is only vulnerable to water treatments for a portion of it's life. Most ich treatments need to be kept up for a month. Some chemical treatments remain in the water, and you just need to add enough to treat replacement water when you do a PWC.

2. Any pond plant will lower nitrite levels. The faster growing, the better job it will do. Plants have the following prefrence: ammonia, then nitrate, then nitrite. If you have enough plant mass to absorb the ammonia before it turns into nitrite, then the nitrite should turn into nitrate and get absorbed as well.

3. Any fountian or waterfall will areate just as well as an air pump. If you saw a diffrence when adding the air pump to your existing fountian, consider adding another fountian or upgrading the pump on the one you have. Plants will also add oxygen to the water.

Koi have barbels under their mouths. Goldfish do not. The two species can interbreed producing presumed sterile offspring. Their offspring often have barbels but may not. In addition to the barbels, goldfish and koi have different body shapes.

Winter: I'd have to do some research on this. I don't know if koi are as winter hardy as goldfish. I believe as long as the pond does not freeze solid, you just need to cut back on feedings and keep a hole in the surface ice for air. There are pond heaters that automatically keep a small hole defrosted all winter long. (Do not attempt to heat the whole pond, you'll go broke on the electric bill.)